Are these Spark Plugs fouled?

Johnny5

Johnny5

Well-known member
This is an update to my previous thread here about my bike not starting:
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?153290-Bike-stutters-then-stops

Long story short my bike ran once this spring before it stopped running and the conclusions so far have been that i should start with the plugs, then the battery and go from there. So i had to order a special size socket before i could get my plugs out. It came today and this is the result. The plugs are rusty around the middles but not on the ends, nor are they corroded, but they are black and somewhat wet and oily. Looking at pics and youtube vids i read it's probably from running too rich. I haven't got the new plugs yet to try them, i will tomorrow, but in the meantime does it look like these are bad enough that they could have been part of the problem or why the bike stopped running and why it was sputtering alot before it died? It also noticed the gap was about .05 too large in these.

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It's really hard to tell from that angle, if you can take another picture of the bottom of the plug where the electrode is we can see. They look pretty black from that angle though.
 
Also, it's important to note that generally plug fouling is a symptom of a problem, and not a problem in and of itself.
 
dricked said:
It's really hard to tell from that angle, if you can take another picture of the bottom of the plug where the electrode is we can see. They look pretty black from that angle though.
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Here's a view of the tip. Sorry for the blurryness of the pics i was outside taking them with my phone and it was hard to see the screen in the sun. The plugs are very black in the tips. I'm assuming they were toast?

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Use the "Macro/Flower" setting on your cam when taking close up pics. It will change the depth of field and they will be in focus.
 
Yeah, they're black alright. You can try lightly sanding the tip to allow the spark to travel between the contacts but I've not had much luck with that myself over the years. I generally ended up replacing them. Your choke maneuver likely fouled them initially. Why it was running rough enough that you put the choke on is another issue. Likely you need your carbs cleaned or there is some other fuel impediment. There could also be a weak spark. As kestrel said, this is the result of some other problem. Likely the plugs are not "bad" on their own (not counting the fact they're fouled). Best case, you try sanding them and see if it'll run and burn off the soot. Next, try new plugs. If it's running rough, you have some other issue.
 
invictus43 said:
Next, try new plugs. If it's running rough, you have some other issue.
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Plugs are cheap i'll get new ones tomorrow. I couldn't until i found out which kind i needed and i couldn't get the old ones out until this afternoon when the special sized socket i needed arrived. Hopefully the bike will at least start and run again at least enough to ride it to the mechanics. I bought the bike in September and it ran amazing all fall right up until i parked it in December. And it ran fine the first day i started it up this spring. So this problem that came on so suddenly just caught me off guard. Definitely a learning process.
 
Well i got new plugs today. They are the correct ones, set to the proper gap etc.. but still the same problem. The bike will start but only if i open the choke a bit and keep my hand on the throttle. As soon as i let go of the throttle it dies. Also still have the problem where even though i hear the engine running, if i crank the throttle it sounds like it's revving normally, but the rpm needle just sits there at 0. My batter is fully charged and was on a tender all winter. And everything else electrical works fine, the lights, gauges etc. so i can't see how it could be a battery problem. What could be the issue here? clogged fuel filter? I put some seafoam into the tank when the problem started but since i can't get the bike to run or stay running it's obviously not circulating through the lines. Still stumped.. :confused:
 
My first thought runs to carb issues (no fuel stabilizer over the winter leads me to suspect clogged jets) but the dead tach could indicate an ignition problem.

I'd try to diagnose the ignition/tach problem first. Check the timing pickup, the module, connections and wiring. Do you have a shop manual?
 
TwistedKestrel said:
My first thought runs to carb issues (no fuel stabilizer over the winter leads me to suspect clogged jets) but the dead tach could indicate an ignition problem.

I'd try to diagnose the ignition/tach problem first. Check the timing pickup, the module, connections and wiring. Do you have a shop manual?
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I did put stalilzer in over the winter. I was riding the bike almost daily right up until Dec 25th. Then i even rode it 2 or 3 times in January when we had dry sunny days with a mixture of gas and stabilzer and it was running great.

It really only sat through Jan-Feb, but i was still starting it up and letting it run for a few minutes a couple times a week. I took it out a few weeks ago and rode it to work and it started up right away without any choke like it always did before, and it ran fine. The issue started about a week later when i went to take it out for the 2nd time this spring, i went and got gas one sunday, then rode it back home and it felt a bit rough, and the next morning when i went to ride to work it was really hard to start and required lots of choke, and right after i hit the street it was running really rough and the rmp's were jumping all over the place, so i stopped at the side of the road, then it took another half hour to get it started again, again with choke open, i managed to get it home in first gear and after that couldn't get it to stay started since.

I'm thinking maybe the first ride of spring shook loose sediments in the tank and lines and so on the 2nd trip out they settled back into the lines? I'm going to put in a new battery as the one that i have is old anyway, but the 0 rpm thing even when i get it running is what really worries me, that seems to make no sense.

I'm not good comfortable doing anything more to the bike myself beyond plugs and battery. I guess i'll have to get it towed to a shop. TO cycle are near me and i was there today and they do have the Clymer manual for the bike so after i hopefully get it fixed i'll pick one up.
 
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Johnny5 said:
but i was still starting it up and letting it run for a few minutes a couple times a week.
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Do you not read the advice given out on these forums? It has been said so many times before that you should park the bike OR ride it. DO NOT start it up and let it idle. That is what fouls plugs and introduces acidic condensation into the motor, drains batteries and more. The whole combustion chamber will be as black and carbon coated as your plugs so a good long run to get everything hot would be a good idea
For your specific problem I'd go with TwistedKestrel's idea of eliminating the dead tachometer first as a source of the problem.
 
Johnny5 said:
I did put stalilzer in over the winter. I was riding the bike almost daily right up until Dec 25th. Then i even rode it 2 or 3 times in January when we had dry sunny days with a mixture of gas and stabilzer and it was running great.
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What did you mean by the first post in the previous thread:

Johnny5 said:
I didn't do anything special to winterize it this year
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Anyhow, clogged fuel lines are unlikely in a bike. The fuel inlet in the tank usually has a screen on it. Anything that's small enough to get past that, will travel through the fuel line into the fuel bowls of the carbs no problem. You could always remove it - the line from the tank to the carbs is usually about the length of your forearm, not much to it.
 
If the problem started after you got gas, mabie you got bad gas? Your problems seem to be more complicated though, try fresh fuel, it's quick and at the worst it doesn't fix anything.
 
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