Anyone ever done a car (not Motorcycle) track day?

[PrivatePilot]

Ok, a little off topic, but I know the need for speed crowd is here, so I thought I'd ask.....contemplating taking my car to one of the "Speed Therapy" days at Canadian Tire Motorsport Park.

I'm looking firmly at the amateur day since I'm not interested in playing with the Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche crowd.

For me, it's not about being competitive ultimately, it's purely ***** and giggles - going out and burying the needle in a safe, legal, and enjoyable environment. I don't care about beating anyone, comparing what's under the hood (although the 375-ish ponies under the hood of my car surprises people sometimes LOL), bragging about aftermarket baubles and farkles, or anything else...I just want to go and have some fun going fast. I'm a competent driver (you don't do 20+ safe years in the commercial industry without understanding vehicle handling) and I understand racing lines, etc.

 

[Hardwrkr13]

I have done two so far. Both at Shannonville. Modded '14 SS Camaro 500hp, big Brembo brakes, and it still felt underwhelming compared to when I ride the bike there.

It's something different and I still say go for it and give it a try. It's an entertaining day.

 

[basmn]

I was invited to mosport DDT track by an audi dealer. I ran my A4 on the track... what a blast. Totally different than the bikes but just as much fun. Just make sure That you USE your car....not ABUSE it.. my whole family has been to the Audi driving experience at the mosport GP track. We drove S4 and TT audi cars...what a blast and great instruction from race drivers. Expensive but worth every penny.

 

[JamJam]

PP.... As someone who has been around car racing for a good chunk of time..... I would definitely say do Mosport DDT quite a few times before you even think of doing the GP track.... The GP track is pretty expensive and really not worth it if you don't know what you are doing.

Also I would look at doing maybe a track school. I would suggest The Hanson School which is done out of Mosport or ILR (Ian Law Racing) CarControl School, both are equally as good. You may think you know how to drive, but trust me there is still lots to learn. I know quite a few amateur racers who still come back for at least one session a year to brush up/hone thier skills or learn something new.

There are also tons of open lapping days put on by guys like Alpha motorsports as well as Touge.ca, and others. Keep in mind that your car is not insured at the track, however there is a company that does offer track day insurance but its pretty expensive. I only know of one "school"/track day that you can do where most insurance companies will still insure you (or at least they used to) and that was put on by the BMW Club of Canada at Mosport GP track. Feel free to PM me if you have questions.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Thanks everyone....appreciate the "been there done that" details.

PP.... As someone who has been around car racing for a good chunk of time..... I would definitely say do Mosport DDT quite a few times before you even think of doing the GP track.... The GP track is pretty expensive and really not worth it if you don't know what you are doing.

$400 through JRP/Speed Therapy, that's not a biggie for a full day of entertainment.

"Not really worth it" depends on what you're looking to get out of it I guess. Like I said, this is just about ***** and giggles for me, nothing more...If I bump the governor down the straightaway every lap and have some fun in the twisties it's all good for me. I know I'll spend my share of time sitting in the pits waiting for my brakes to cool down and such, but I'm OK with that as well...

There are also tons of open lapping days put on by guys like Alpha motorsports as well as Touge.ca, and others.

Can you explain the different options out there..like I mentioned I was looking at the JRP group, but ultimately will go with whatever is best suited to what I'm aiming to accomplish - just going out with what is effectively a daily driver street car (albeit with some ponies) and having fun. I don't want to be mixed in with a bunch of hyper competitive guys in supercars, my times don't matter, that sort of thing. If some others in the group also showed up in their street cars with the same ***** and giggles goals in mind that'd be perfect.

Keep in mind that your car is not insured at the track, however there is a company that does offer track day insurance but its pretty expensive.

Thanks, hadn't thought about that whatsoever, but good thing to know. How does that work....obviously, you damage your own vehicle you're out in the cold, and hell, I'm not too worried about that as I'm the type of person who drives within my limits (and honestly, probably under them) and am unlikely to get myself into any issues...and if I do, I can suck it up if something happens and not be too upset about it. But, when it comes to someone else's car, what's the liability? If some guy gets too close in a corner, for example, and I scrape his Camry (LOL, read the link I posted above) can he come back on me and demand I repair it, or does the waivers and such that I'm assuming everyone has to sign remove that potential problem...IE, "what happens here is at your own risk regardless of fault" type thing?

And will my regular insurance company frown on me tracking the car...should I tell them? Should I most certainly not? If I don't can they hold it against me if something happens?

 

[jcbarnar]

You won't be allowed to pass in the corners so don't worry about that, but I have seen **** happen especially at faster tracks where a car in front spins and the car behind has nowhere to go but off. Honestly though it's rare, just go have fun and leave lots of space. I wouldn't mention it to insurance. Never go to a track if you can't handle an accident, however unlikely it is.

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[jcbarnar]

I would also add that there is, in my opinion, more risk the more amateurish the event is. Go with a well run group, with other mature drivers where possible. You'd probably be safer with a bunch of porsches/lambos if you really think about it. I don't have any experience with the one in question.

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[JamJam]

Thanks everyone....appreciate the "been there done that" details.



$400 through JRP/Speed Therapy, that's not a biggie for a full day of entertainment.

"Not really worth it" depends on what you're looking to get out of it I guess. Like I said, this is just about ***** and giggles for me, nothing more...If I bump the governor down the straightaway every lap and have some fun in the twisties it's all good for me. I know I'll spend my share of time sitting in the pits waiting for my brakes to cool down and such, but I'm OK with that as well...

There are a quite a few blind corners etc at Mosport GP track.... most guys/cars that go there (and I stress most) are usually more experienced guys with either pretty modified cars (most times streetable cars, sometimes not) or really expensive cars that don't need modifying. You would be much better served and probably get more out of it doing a lapping/track day on the DDT circuit (Driver Development Track) Even the CSCS series uses the DDT track. I personally wouldn't do the GP track on a typical stock set up car.



Can you explain the different options out there..like I mentioned I was looking at the JRP group, but ultimately will go with whatever is best suited to what I'm aiming to accomplish - just going out with what is effectively a daily driver street car (albeit with some ponies) and having fun. I don't want to be mixed in with a bunch of hyper competitive guys in supercars, my times don't matter, that sort of thing. If some others in the group also showed up in their street cars with the same ***** and giggles goals in mind that'd be perfect.

​Not sure what you mean by different options.... Different people put on track days JRP, Touge.ca, Alpha motorsports, etc etc... essentially it's a person or entity that rent out the track then charges other to participate. Some tracks like Shannonvile and TMP (Toronto Motorsport Park by Cayuga) also offer open lapping days/evenings where they just have the track and they charge entry to use it. Some weekday spots open/unlimited lapping at TMP or Shannonville say from 3pm to dusk could cost as little as $20... but there is that drive. I would be hesitant to lap on a completely stock set-up... I personally would at least look into better pads and change the brake fluid to handle the higher temps.



Thanks, hadn't thought about that whatsoever, but good thing to know. How does that work....obviously, you damage your own vehicle you're out in the cold, and hell, I'm not too worried about that as I'm the type of person who drives within my limits (and honestly, probably under them)​Just this statement here highly suggests to me that the DDT would be better suited for you or Shanny or TMP and am unlikely to get myself into any issues...and if I do, I can suck it up if something happens and not be too upset about it. But, when it comes to someone else's car, what's the liability? If some guy gets too close in a corner, for example, and I scrape his Camry (LOL, read the link I posted above) can he come back on me and demand I repair it, or does the waivers and such that I'm assuming everyone has to sign remove that potential problem...IE, "what happens here is at your own risk regardless of fault" type thing?

Racing is racing/Speed is speed... stuff happens.... Most track days have a rule of not passing in the corners so as long as there aren't too many a$$hats out that day it shouldn't be a problem... just be courteous and wave them through after the corner. As for damages, what happens at the track happens at the track, you pay for your own car. Now if you wreck someone else car well.... thats up to you guys but you are not responsible to pay to fix it.

And will my regular insurance company frown on me tracking the car...should I tell them? Should I most certainly not? If I don't can they hold it against me if something happens.

NO NO NO DEFINITLY DO NOT TELL THEM..... When you go to a track day one of the first things you do is pull off your plates. If something happens at the track remember there is no insurance coverage there so there is no reason to contact them. They can hold it against you if you tell them and nothing happens. There have been reported instance where people have tracked their car and insurance has found out and dropped them.

I'm not too far from Pickering... hit me up if you want to chat more about this

 

[JamJam]

I would also add that there is, in my opinion, more risk the more amateurish the event is. Go with a well run group, with other mature drivers where possible. You'd probably be safer with a bunch of porsches/lambos if you really think about it. I don't have any experience with the one in question.

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The is very true... but you may also piss them off more than anything too..... but yes, very important to research the better run groups

 

[JamJam]

You won't be allowed to pass in the corners so don't worry about that, but I have seen **** happen especially at faster tracks where a car in front spins and the car behind has nowhere to go but off. Honestly though it's rare, just go have fun and leave lots of space. I wouldn't mention it to insurance. Never go to a track if you can't handle an accident, however unlikely it is.

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This... can't stress this enough... I have seen people crash brand new cars and blow motors... yes its rare... but still very costly.
One of the last ones I was at I watched a university kid with a brand new BRZ pop his motor.... He was pretty upset once we told him what was wrong as he said he wouldn't be able to fix it for a long time... paying for both the car payments and UNI

 

[dricked]

Listen to these guys. The blind corners could mean you're the pylon that someone can't avoid coming over a hill. Anything can happen, it may not be your fault but it may be your car that gets taken out of there on a flatbed. If your in a group of guys driving $10,000 track cars they're going to be more aggressive and care less about their vehicle then the guy driving his $150k Porsche.

Everyone thinks they're a race car driver because they can drive, same as how guys think they're going to be good on their first track day because they can ride a bike. Pretend you don't know anything and listen to the people that have been around, you'll learn a lot.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Thanks guys, OK, I'll take the advice and steer clear of the CTMP main track. I don't want to be "that guy" who gets in over his head because he refused to take good advice from people who know better.

The DDT does look interesting now that I've looked at it more, but it seems more technical vs fast, correct? At least once I'd like to go bump the governor just to say I did...and no, I'm not going to do it on the street.

Shannonville....certainly not out of the realm of interest for me since I'm already on the far east side of the GTA anyways, so it's only a little over an hour from me. How's it compare to the DDT at Mosport, which is only about a 20 minute drive? The "as cheap as $20" thing mentioned above for Shannonville is needless to say...interesting. Do they split up track time into amateur/intermediate/pro, or is it a free for all?

This is all entirely new to me so I'm soaking up the advice and info like a sponge.

Ultimately, I'm not too worried about the car, and I realize I'll rapidly bump into limitations tracking what is effectively a street car, but like I also mentioned, I'm cool with doing a lap or three and then sitting in the pits waiting for things to recover...like I mentioned, it's not about competition or times for me, it's just about some safe legal fun.

 

[dricked]

Shannonville has a nice straight that will give you some opportunity to open it up, more so than the DDT track. It's a nice easy drive if you're already east of the city. The track is flat so you can see everyone.

Do a couple days on smaller tracks and then by all means jump onto the big track. My first time on the big track was very intimidating even though I'd been racing for a year and doing track days. It's big, and VERY fast. It would be like trying to learn how to ski and going straight to the double black diamond hill for your first run.

 

[DDean]

I have well over 100 days on tracks in cars. Mostly Mosport big track, ended up instructing there for a couple groups. Was super fun. Cost lots of dough. Made it through without having an accident and am very thankful for that because accidents are somewhat common.

The DDT suggestions are good to start and then find a group that is very structured and doesn't scrimp on things like marshals and who doesn't try to sign up too many cars.

I'd highly recommend it but everyone needs to approach it with 100% humility and with an ability to keep their discipline.

Give it it a shot. You're almost certain to love it. Or you could get into kart racing which is something I regret not doing. Sign up to drive those F2000 cars at the DDT and go from there.

 

[ZX600]

Haa, I had just moved to Canada from Venezuela (20 years ago) never been in a pair of skis in my life, my (ex) wife took me to Mont Tremblant for my first time skiing, we grabbed a lift and by mistake she took me to a double black diamond instead of a regular hill. I contemplated taking my skis off and walking down but end up making it all the way down alive, ohh the 20's no fear of anything.

 

[Kri$han]

Another vote for DDT here.

About 15 years ago when I was active on car-forums, I did the Ian Law Racing school at mosport DDT and it was an absolute blast. Its the most fun you can have with your pants on, for sure. I've since done a few more days at DDT, Shannonville and Dunnville, but DDT was my favourite because of how technical it was. You'll definitely bury the RPM needle, but don't expect to get out of 3rd gear, lol. DDT (Driver Development Track) will force you to pick smooth lines and practice them over and over.

I recommend track-specific brakes and rubber. Swap 'em in the paddock; but it's not a requirement.

 

[GreyGhost]

I have only been on the new DDT track once. In the configuration I ran, top speed (in a 360) was less than 150 km/h. We didn't have the south loop in. Over 200 should be possible running the full DDT with the right car and a little practice. Pegging the speedo on anything not geared for the short track is very unlikely. It was a great experience. I fought with corner 5 every lap, I could not find a line I liked. There was a bump around corner 14 that made life very interesting if you were really on it.

What car are you planning on taking? Another vote for not notifying insurance that you have ever been on a track. The story I heard was in the past, many vehicles would "crash on the roads around mosport" (actual crash happened on the track, but you drag/drive the car to a ditch outside and claim the accident). Because of this behaviour they don't like to insure cars that see track duty.

 

[arsenalrocks]

DDT is a good start, lots of left turns and its perfect for practicing turns.

Mosport the big track you need instructors for sure. it is very hard to learn the track yourself. by far the best org (pricewise) to go with is BMW trillium which is a non-for-profit club.

 

[Hardwrkr13]

Regarding Shannonville, I also went to one of their Lapping Days for cars. It's truly a run-what-ya-brung event but was still well run. Lot's of space between vehicles. You're only allowed to do one lap at a time so that's how they keep vehicles spaced (everyone comes into the pits after a lap and you just stay in a line).
That day I took my Mazda CX-7 around the track and still had a great time. The turbo engine took the abuse fine but the brakes faded badly.
There was everything from big dollar trailered track cars to an A4 driven there with a dealer plate.

 

[griff2]

Regarding Shannonville, I also went to one of their Lapping Days for cars. It's truly a run-what-ya-brung event but was still well run. Lot's of space between vehicles. You're only allowed to do one lap at a time so that's how they keep vehicles spaced (everyone comes into the pits after a lap and you just stay in a line).
That day I took my Mazda CX-7 around the track and still had a great time. The turbo engine took the abuse fine but the brakes faded badly.
There was everything from big dollar trailered track cars to an A4 driven there with a dealer plate.

I recall one lapping event at Shannonville that started as soon as the daytime regular bike race activity was over. It ran until dusk, and the vehicles were BMWs, Audi, Acuras and an occasional Benz, many of which had a full load of helmetless passengers in them doing fast nose-to-tail laps with other cars similarly loaded up.

I think it was Toronto Chinese Motorsport Club, who have since changed their name and now rents Mosport's big track on almost every long weekend holiday Monday. They run a bit more disciplined now, but that is still probably a weekend for a novice to keep away from.