Any concrete guys here? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any concrete guys here?

R

Renboy

Well-known member
The floor in my garage isn't sloped properly and when snow melts off my car the water pools at the back of the garage. Is there a mortar I can buy so that I can build up parts of the floor to change the slope? I need something that will actually bond with the concrete that's already there. I have no desire to break out the old floor and have a new one poured.
Thanks.
 
Renboy said:
The floor in my garage isn't sloped properly and when snow melts off my car the water pools at the back of the garage. Is there a mortar I can buy so that I can build up parts of the floor to change the slope? I need something that will actually bond with the concrete that's already there. I have no desire to break out the old floor and have a new one poured.
Thanks.
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This might be a job for self leveling cement, I am no expert here though.

Sent from the future
 
its not hard, like painting the secret is in excellent prep.

1) Cleaning: the floor well, has to be free of oil, grease, and dust. Use TSP or any other aggressive concrete cleaner that does not include a sealer.
2) Finding the patch area: Flood the low area with clean water until it pools in the low area, trace 1' around the the perimeter to mark the area you need to build up. LET THIS DRY before proceeding (about a day), otherwise the water frustrates the bonding process. Bases on the area of your patch and thickness, get a 5th grader to do the math to determine how much levelling concrete you need. (you can't use regular concrete mix)

3) Pouring: This is really 2 steps, but they are done back to back and you can't wait in-between - nice to have a second helper for this as concrete doesn't like to wait, that way you can be mixing at the same time.

Mix the primer. You can purchase premixed primer (bonding agent) or make your own with straight portland, water and acrylic concrete additive. Mix to the consistency of thick paint,

Mix the levelling concrete per instructions on the bag. It will likely need to sit (stake) for a few minutes before you pout.

Wet out the patch area. It should be thoroughly dampened -- no standing water.

Use a masons brush or stiff broom to paint the bonding agent onto the area you traced out. you can be generous but don't try building up this layer.

Start pouting the levelling concrete at the lowest point of your patch. Let it flow out and find it's level.

Feather the edges with your brush or broom.

Tip: Drill small holes in your concrete then twist in Tapcons till the heads are at the level your looking for. You can back the tapcons out once you finist the pour, the wet concrete will fill in.

4) Crack a cold one and admire your work.
 
I still can't figure out why you want to put a car in a the garage. First off that's where motorbikes go and second keeping a car in the garage over winter helps them rust out faster.
 
Steve and Mike, I've used self-leveller quite a few times, and unfortunately it won't work here. I need to create slope, not just fill it in. I want the water to run toward the garage door and out of the garage. I just don't know if a mortar exists that can be built up, feathered to nothing, and will permanently bond to cured concrete without cracking the first time I park a car on it. I know it needs to be clean and I have a diamond cup to rough it up a bit as well. Thanks though.

Tim, salt only becomes ineffective at really cold temperatures, it's eating your car at -10*C just as much as at 5*C. But the increased fuel consumption and engine wear at those cold temperatures are definitely more pronounced. Not to mention, I use a car wash regularly that sprays the underbody. Finally, and most importantly, I FOOKING HATE cold and winter. It's far beyond dislike or even loathe. Why have a garage that will keep my car somewhat warm and park outside? The same but opposite holds true for summer. Not to mention, I have all the bikes parked in a heated shop during the winter that I have anytime access to.
 
My theory is that the car gets covered in frozen salt/slush and outside at cold temps it stays there. Bring the car inside and as it warms that stuff turns to a salty brine that can seep into every crack and crevis hastening the rot.
I don't keep my car in the garage (too full with bikes) and I've had 10+ year old cars with hardly any rust. Meanwhile friends with much newer, garage kept vehicles tend to rust faster. YMMV.
As for cold temps and engine wear that's never been a concern or a problem that I've noticed. 400K+ and never had motor work done of any kind. (then again maybe it's just that I drive a Toyota)
That said I FOOKING HATE scraping ice off the windows........
 
To your point, I believe oils have gotten to the point that temp doesn't make much difference either. Fuel consumption is definitely much worse in the cold though. The car model makes a huge difference as well. Try to find a 15 year old Mazda without any rust, unless the car has lived it's entire life in Arizona it's impossible. My 19 year old 3 series has been abused and it's rusting a bit now, but not horrific yet. I did get it Krown sprayed a few times and I do believe that helped as it's rusting in odd spots like the center of a body panel rather than at creases and seams like wheel arches.
 
Renboy said:
To your point, I believe oils have gotten to the point that temp doesn't make much difference either. Fuel consumption is definitely much worse in the cold though. The car model makes a huge difference as well. Try to find a 15 year old Mazda without any rust, unless the car has lived it's entire life in Arizona it's impossible. My 19 year old 3 series has been abused and it's rusting a bit now, but not horrific yet. I did get it Krown sprayed a few times and I do believe that helped as it's rusting in odd spots like the center of a body panel rather than at creases and seams like wheel arches.
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Agree, rust is far more affected by manufacturer than garage. A relative just tossed a nine yo Subaru that lived outside and had 70k km on it due to extensive rust. Mazda was terrible (are they better now?). Hyundai used to be horrendous in the pony era but seems to be ok now. Germans seem to be better on average for rust.
 
Renboy said:
Steve and Mike, I've used self-leveller quite a few times, and unfortunately it won't work here. I need to create slope, not just fill it in. I want the water to run toward the garage door and out of the garage. I just don't know if a mortar exists that can be built up, feathered to nothing, and will permanently bond to cured concrete without cracking the first time I park a car on it. I know it needs to be clean and I have a diamond cup to rough it up a bit as well. Thanks though.

Tim, salt only becomes ineffective at really cold temperatures, it's eating your car at -10*C just as much as at 5*C. But the increased fuel consumption and engine wear at those cold temperatures are definitely more pronounced. Not to mention, I use a car wash regularly that sprays the underbody. Finally, and most importantly, I FOOKING HATE cold and winter. It's far beyond dislike or even loathe. Why have a garage that will keep my car somewhat warm and park outside? The same but opposite holds true for summer. Not to mention, I have all the bikes parked in a heated shop during the winter that I have anytime access to.
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The chemical reaction IS temperature dependant and will be faster at higher temps vs lower and it will be faster at +5 vs -10. Still happening at the lower temp, just slower. It likely won't matter much if you flip the vehicles often enough (always driving new), it will if you keep them for 10 years or buy older vehicles. The older vehicle will have more exposed metal due to wear and tear than new, that makes a big difference. Short answer, the vehicle will rust faster in the garage than outside but also consider what vehicle (as we know some are rot boxes more than others) and how old as factors.
*****
Another benefit in southern Ontario of parking in the driveway. If you know snow is coming you can park closer to the street so there is almost no driveway to clear before you leave. I would rather clean the car than shovel the driveway.... In the end the snow will be all melted in a couple of days or weeks as the temps bounce around here.
 
GreyGhost said:
Agree, rust is far more affected by manufacturer than garage. A relative just tossed a nine yo Subaru that lived outside and had 70k km on it due to extensive rust. Mazda was terrible (are they better now?). Hyundai used to be horrendous in the pony era but seems to be ok now. Germans seem to be better on average for rust.
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Many factors from the manufacturing side. The quality of the steel (mostly regional). Double sided galvanized is a big benefit. One of the biggest is how well the e-coat is done (this was a big game changer for brands that used to be really bad and are better now). There are also design factors like (just an example) some Hondas where the rear bumper meets the quarter, other brands where it gets inside the rocker panels, GMs in the 80s that need all the brake lines replaced in four years...

The catch with e-coat is once it is eventually broken through it is defeated. That is one of the worst cases parking in the warmer garage speeding up the corrosion.
 
Renboy said:
Steve and Mike, I've used self-leveller quite a few times, and unfortunately it won't work here. I need to create slope, not just fill it in. I want the water to run toward the garage door and out of the garage. I just don't know if a mortar exists that can be built up, feathered to nothing, and will permanently bond to cured concrete without cracking the first time I park a car on it. I know it needs to be clean and I have a diamond cup to rough it up a bit as well. Thanks though.

Tim, salt only becomes ineffective at really cold temperatures, it's eating your car at -10*C just as much as at 5*C. But the increased fuel consumption and engine wear at those cold temperatures are definitely more pronounced. Not to mention, I use a car wash regularly that sprays the underbody. Finally, and most importantly, I FOOKING HATE cold and winter. It's far beyond dislike or even loathe. Why have a garage that will keep my car somewhat warm and park outside? The same but opposite holds true for summer. Not to mention, I have all the bikes parked in a heated shop during the winter that I have anytime access to.
Click to expand...
You can't cap concrete with concrete at depths less than 1" -- you can with self levelling and primer. You can work self levelling concrete with a mag float, that's why I mentioned the tapcon trick. Set your slope with the tapcons then work the self levelling mix to match the head height of the screws. as it starts to set.

Your other option is breaking out the low spots. A garage floor is typically 3", thick - jack out the troubled area, doesn't need to be square, just follow the depression lines you find when you flood the floor. Mix up ready mix bags and re-concrete the bad spots.
 
Mad Mike said:
You can't cap concrete with concrete at depths less than 1" -- you can with self levelling and primer. You can work self levelling concrete with a mag float, that's why I mentioned the tapcon trick. Set your slope with the tapcons then work the self levelling mix to match the head height of the screws. as it starts to set.

Your other option is breaking out the low spots. A garage floor is typically 3", thick - jack out the troubled area, doesn't need to be square, just follow the depression lines you find when you flood the floor. Mix up ready mix bags and re-concrete the bad spots.
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That's what I figured, but didn't want to hear.
 
backmarkerducati said:
The chemical reaction IS temperature dependant and will be faster at higher temps vs lower and it will be faster at +5 vs -10. Still happening at the lower temp, just slower. It likely won't matter much if you flip the vehicles often enough (always driving new), it will if you keep them for 10 years or buy older vehicles. The older vehicle will have more exposed metal due to wear and tear than new, that makes a big difference. Short answer, the vehicle will rust faster in the garage than outside but also consider what vehicle (as we know some are rot boxes more than others) and how old as factors.
*****
Another benefit in southern Ontario of parking in the driveway. If you know snow is coming you can park closer to the street so there is almost no driveway to clear before you leave. I would rather clean the car than shovel the driveway.... In the end the snow will be all melted in a couple of days or weeks as the temps bounce around here.
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Can't run a snowblower over my car. Well, technically, I guess I could....
I stand corrected about the rust and temperature. I was under the impression the temperature effect was binary rather than linear. Still doesn't make me hate the cold any less. Also, increased fuel consumption comes with added costs like o2 sensors, and catalytic converters. In either case, the cold weather ends up costing money.
 
I am far from a concrete guy, but I recently fixed my basement slab that had a few issues. It had a 6in deep 2ft by 2ft cut out. Some spots required thin leveling in preparation for flooring. I read lots of reviews and specs of all kinds of concrete sold HD. Most self leveling concrete needs some kind of flooring on top of it. It's not meant to be the final layer. Most don't like garages as they have water, freezing, temps and weight. I filled the hole with quikrete. Good stuff but chunky. Self leveling on top was out due to the above. Then I looked at topping mixes. Most are pretty fussy about the depth of the area they can cover. Since the quikrete was chunky some spots were deeper than 2in and some were almost level with the slab.

In the end I settled for CTS cement all. It has a bonding formula to stick to whatever you pour it on. It's very strong, good with exposure to elements and easy to apply. The 15 minute set time is exactly what it sets in. More or less water does not make a difference, 15 minutes. I mixed it with the maximum recommended water ratio and just troweled it. It poured almost like a self leveling cement. I helped it spread with a trowel, but it was pretty good at getting in to all voids. After 5 minutes it started getting more viscous. This was a good time to work on sloping it and smoothing it. Between 5-10 it's still workable. At 10 to 15 minutes the setting was noticeable. It had the consistency of wet sand. It no longer stuck to the trowel so I was able to give it a good finish. Small adjustments to slope and level are still possible. After 15 minutes it SETS, so plan accordingly. The mix is fine, composed of sand, rocks out pebbles. I also used it in spots that required 1/8in leveling. It worked well. CTS also sells additives to delay setting and improve flow. You can turn it in to a slow set self leveling cement. I got them, but I found it easy to work with without the additives. I think it would make a pretty good sloping product.

CEMENT All Datasheet | CTS Cement

www.ctscement.com www.ctscement.com
 
My single car garage had crappy spalled concrete due to the wrong aggregate and the divots made it hard roll the Goldwing around on its roll about. I diamond ground the spots and patched with a two part cement (MG Crete?) pricey but I only needed one kit. It stuck like glue.

A touch up with the diamond cup and it got a coat of paint that peeled off everywhere else. The slab had been sealed. &%*&^

I ground the whole thing and repainted. A couple years later it's still good.

Another possibility is to tile the floor with cheap tiles from Restore, sloping as you go but I'd still grind first. Grinding will take a day out of your life but re-doing will take a week.

A light coloured floor brightens up the place FWIW.

Consider lippage and slippery factors.

Edit. The concrete finishers I dealt with were uncomfortable with less than three inches. Admixtures can affect the results. I had considered a rip out but there were too many zeros in the calculation.
 
I have thought about tiling it as well. First I'll slope and epoxy it. If it doesn't hold up, then I'll look for some largish rectified porcelain tile.
 
Renboy said:
I have thought about tiling it as well. First I'll slope and epoxy it. If it doesn't hold up, then I'll look for some largish rectified porcelain tile.
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Don't even try a store bought epoxy kit. It wont hold up. Been there.
You'll have to grind up the epoxy if you want to tile after. Been there also.
 
there is no easy solution unfortunately.

- Chip out the floor and pour new ($$$$$)

- Pour bonded concrete topping ($$$$)

- Build up with cement based leveling product to create proper slope ($$$)
 
Renboy said:
I have thought about tiling it as well. First I'll slope and epoxy it. If it doesn't hold up, then I'll look for some largish rectified porcelain tile.
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Don't go cheap on the thinset.

I was trying an experiment in my shop and just needed to put down one tile. I wanted to see if a tile could be removed without breaking it. Since it wasn't meant to last I bought cheap thinset at HD. I was able to remove the tile a week later, so a success.

Some time later I was about to buy more thinset for a real job and a saleslady at HD warned me about the cheap stuff and I found out it was glorified mud. Good stuff sticks better.
 
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