Another tire thread, yes, I know......... | GTAMotorcycle.com

Another tire thread, yes, I know.........

smudger

smudger

Well-known member
I have been riding track for 2 seasons now on my 26 year old ZX7 using OEM sized Dunlop Q3 tires & they work fine for me, as far as I know anyways as they are all I have experience with. The front let go on a cold, wet, windy day at TMP in May last year but apart from that I have had no issues. I get around 8 track days out of a set of Q3's riding TMP & Grand Bend.

However my weapon of choice for 2017 is a 2006 GSXR1000 track bike & I intend stepping up to intermediate group this year.
The GSXR will have new Ohlins shock on the rear & the forks are going to Scott at FAST this week to be upgraded from OEM.

I was just going to put Q3's on the GSXR but now I have a couple of questions:

1. OEM rear tire sizing is 190/50 but I've been told to use 190/55 as this is a dedicated track bike & the 55 is a better profile for track use, more grip at lean etc, what do you think?

2. I was also advised to fit a more track orientated tire to the GSXR such as Michelin Supersport Evo or Michelin Power Cup Evo as they can be ran without tire warmers (I don't have warmers I just take it steady for the 1st 2 or 3 laps) but I have concerns that my pace may not be enough to build the required heat in these tires, again, what do you think?

I know tires are always a contentious subject BUT there are lots of people on here who have probably forgotten more about track riding & set up than I'll ever know so I thought I'd tap into that knowledge pool.
Thanks,
 
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Michelin has a new tire. Michelin power rs. Have a look at it. Otherwise i used bridgestone rs10 for my track bike. 2 flaws in my opinion, slow warm up time (without warmers) and doesn't have longevity (compared to q3). Nonetheless, tire is priced reasonably well and super sticky once up to operating temp and proper tire pressure.

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Congratulations on the bike, hell of a choice and everything you might need for a track bike (I got the same one). That bike had the best stock forks of the era, an upgrade will set you up nicely.
I use size 200 Dunlop slicks with tire warmers so I can't really help you with your question except to say that Q3's might get hot and slippery with that bike's power once your pace increases. Definitely a DOT tire seems to be what you need.


smudger said:
I have been riding track for 2 seasons now on my 26 year old ZX7 using OEM sized Dunlop Q3 tires & they work fine for me, as far as I know anyways as they are all I have experience with. The front let go on a cold, wet, windy day at TMP in May last year but apart from that I have had no issues. I get around 8 track days out of a set of Q3's riding TMP & Grand Bend.

However my weapon of choice for 2017 is a 2006 GSXR1000 track bike & I intend stepping up to intermediate group this year.
The GSXR will have new Ohlins shock on the rear & the forks are going to Scott at FAST this week to be upgraded from OEM.

I was just going to put Q3's on the GSXR but now I have a couple of questions:

1. OEM rear tire sizing is 190/50 but I've been told to use 190/55 as this is a dedicated track bike & the 55 is a better profile for track use, more grip at lean etc, what do you think?

2. I was also advised to fit a more track orientated tire to the GSXR such as Michelin Supersport Evo or Michelin Power Cup Evo as they can be ran without tire warmers (I don't have warmers I just take it steady for the 1st 2 or 3 laps) but I have concerns that my pace may not be enough to build the required heat in these tires, again, what do you think?

I know tires are always a contentious subject BUT there are lots of people on here who have probably forgotten more about track riding & set up than I'll ever know so I thought I'd tap into that knowledge pool.
Thanks,
Click to expand...
 
"Michelin Supersport Evo or Michelin Power Cup Evo as they can be ran without tire warmers"

Still need warmers for these. When we were chatting I assumed we had agreed that you need to get some tire warmers.

If you're not going to get warmers than there's the Dunlop Q3, new Michelin RS, Bridgestone RS10, etc.

But, I'm recommending warmers with a proper track tire.

Tyler


 
Hey Tyler, you did & I appreciate the advice but I'm still hesitant on the warmers, its not even the $$$, I'm just a little worried I wouldn't be keeping the heat in the tire - I did speak to "someone else" who told me I wouldn't need warmers on those tires.
I should perhaps have clarified that in my initial post that I have had recommendations for a track tire used with warmers & also track tire used without warmers.
I'm definitely sat on the fence at the moment re warmers & not sure which side I'm going to jump to, or which side is the best for me to jump to, hence the post on here to try & get as much information/research I can before making that decision.
If I'm reading it correctly (based on the ever reliable Google) isn't the new RS replacing Supersport EVO?
 
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The RS is replacing all the Michelin supersport DOT tires. It's their new rubber compound and they're extremely proud of the performance and longevity of it resulting from their testing. It would definitely be worth trying if you're not going the tire warmer way.

Any race compound tire will require warmers unless you plan on doing 3-4 warm up laps at every session. Even then I wouldn't recommend it.

Ideally you want the digital heat controlled warmers as you should be matching your pretrack temp with the temp you are coming off the track at for optimum performance. This subject, is a whole new conversation though lol

I just believe you're limiting yourself/holding yourself back by not running the best tires, and suspension, that you can regardless of what machine you choose to ride. As I was once told, "If you're not out there pushing yourself every lap, you're just putting kms on your bike."

Tyler
 
A liter bike has a 6" wide rear rim, a 600cc bike has a 5.5" rear rim. Most 190 and 200 rear tires are designed for a 6" rear rim, the only exception I know of is the Dunlop 190 series tires that are designed for a 5.5" rim.

I've kept notes over the years, the difference in circumference of rear tires of different brands with sizes 180/60, 190/50, 190/55, 200/50, etc. is on average less than 5mm, which is nothing when the tire circumference is about 206cm. The actual difference is in the contour (ie. profile) of the tire. The bigger the tire number, the larger the profile, the more you can lean the bike without running out of tire. Different tires will have different profiles, everything else is preference.

I've met people who run slicks with no warmers, with the same idea as street tires, give them some warm-up laps each session. Track/street tires in my opinion would be the same, like Super Corsa and Dunlop Sportmax GPA. Aside from the whole tire grip/heat cycle/tire wear conversation (that I'm sure no one wants to start :p), having the mindset to warm up the tires each session is an idea that works fine for track days.

Another idea is to get some used warmers that don't work any more, I'm sure lots of racers have them. When they come up on kijiji they would be $125 or less? I also have an old set I will eventually put up. They would still act as an insulation blanket and keep some heat in, and on a hot day would keep the tires almost as hot as plugged in warmers. At the very least is better than having nothing, would still have a positive effect on street tires, would lower the number of heat cycles and preserve some grip in the tires. Food for thought.
 
Running anything but street tires without warmers is not a good idea - Bad advice .

There are so many threads in here about this topic so I will let other comment but I do agree with two wheel

That bike's rear has tried to escape from under me a few times and I am using slicks and warmers and TC, imagine if I had street tires my *** would have been in the sky and would have paid a lot more in repairs than on a genny and warmers
 
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You won't notice much difference between a 190/50 and 55. Also those numbers are relative anyway as every manufacturer will be a different size even within the 190/50 or 55 spec. Also, on a 1000 I would be running a 200.

Either run street tires, or get warmers. You will not regret getting warmers. Knowing that the tire is up to operating temp as soon as you hit the track is way better than the 1-3 lap guessing game.

You're argument about not being able to keep the heat in the tire makes little sense. If you can't keep the heat in the tire on track after using warmers, then you will never get those tires up to the correct operating temperature without using warmers. You are much better to go out of a hot tire, and perhaps lose some temperature, than to go out on a cold tire and try and build heat in it. Going out on the hot tire will give you the ability to up your pace right from the get go so you can actually keep the heat in the tire, as opposed to basically fighting the cold tires to build heat, which you may never get as you don't have the same grip, and risking a crash in the process. You will also get much better tire wear going out on hot tires vs cold.
 
Makes sense Kyle, thanks.
I'm going to try the new Michelin Power RS tires & take it from there.
 
joey12jet said:
Any recomendation brand/model for generator and tire warmer?
Click to expand...
The champion inverters are cheap and seem to work very well. Can't go wrong with Honda or Yamaha but you'll pay substantially more.

For warmers I went with Bickle. Never had a problem, and if I do, he is local(even trackside at the races) and can repair them.

We also have a set of the original Moto-D and both burned out. Moto-D replaced them under warranty(took 3 months), the rear is the newer carbon style and works great but the front is the old style and still takes forever to come up to temp. Woodcraft, and Chicken Hawk are also good choices, but they are no cheaper than Bickle and you lose the aforementioned local support.

Old sets come up now and again for a good price. Plenty of people have had his warmers for years without issue.
 
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Hello,

I started last year on Q3's on my ZX-6R. I ended the year with GPA's and warmers. I am still in the green group and I'll admit there are some people who have asked me why use warmers 'in the green group' but I plan on keeping with GPAs. I thought it would be a PITA to be dealing with warmers but it wasn't at all. It may simply be placebo effect knowing you have hot DOT race tires on the bike but I felt like the bike felt better on the GPAs vs Q3's. I only had 1 slight moment with the Q3's (stepping out 3 laps in row in carousel at GB) and that was the day before I went to GPA's and I believe it was just the Q3's telling me they were done. I think the GPAs were a combination of profile change that I liked the feel of, mental knowledge that the tires are not the limiting factor and probably some of the fact that they really do grip better.

I hope to try to log my tire temps a bit this year and I was worried about the heat being lost as I rode as I am not that quick. But then look at it this way ... if you are not keeping heat in the tires from the warmers then how are you getting tires up to temp without warmers?

I got 2-temp woodcraft warmers as I knew someone who was selling some. I have a PowerIT 2000W inverter generator and it worked fine last year and has worked over the winter a few times. So far been happy with it for a cheap generator. It was sold by Walmart but I found a guy up in Barrie who had 'a skid of them shipped from China' and was cheaper. I don't see his ads on Kijiji anymore though *shrug* He explained it he got it from the same importer that Walmart uses so I suspect this is one of those cases where a China factory makes more of something and sells some on the the side?

Jeff
 
If you're getting 8 track days on a single set of Q3 then my opinion is to stick with them--at least for your first time out on the new bike/new group. If nothing else, it should help ease the transition to the new setup because you're already familiar with the rubber. If you find you're being held back by the tires at that point then change 'em. But you might find that they work fine for you in which case continue to enjoy the $ savings.

I run Q3 in yellow group and get around 3-4 days before I swap. That's on a 600 at bogie. However, I do change them well before they are fully worn down. At present, I don't feel my pace or riding style warrants any reason to change to a more expensive tire.
 
Can't compare power to the wheel on a zx6r and a gsxr1000, I have had both.
 
Thanks Jeff & AF4iK,
That's great information & is appreciated.
I'm going to try the new Michelin Power RS tires initially - its a brand new tire & there are not many reviews about but from what I've seen the reviews are very, very good so I'll try them initially.

Have to say I'm now just itching to get out & try the bike with its new Ohlins suspension & some decent tires on it as I've only ridden it once since buying it at the last TMP track day last year (on its squared off Q3's & OEM suspension that couldn't adjust for my body weight) just to feel the bike out.
Hopefully TMP will have their usual April 29th/30th track day to kick off 2017 - I know there is track day at GBM that same weekend but its for the SOAR guys & gals, their practice weekend.
 
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