Another government greenwashing dumpster fire (hybrid ambulances) | GTAMotorcycle.com

Another government greenwashing dumpster fire (hybrid ambulances)

GreyGhost

GreyGhost

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Pay millions to pretend to be green without vetting the system. Send all the systems to the dump two years later. Sounds green to me. /s Lots of money lit on fire and lots of parts in the dump. Minimal benefit by any metric.

TL: DR Feds and city spent millions to convert ambulances to hybrids in 2020. Hybrid system was sole-sourced by government. Predicted 12 year lifespan. Company that made the hybrid system ceased operation in 2022 and repair parts are unavailable. A few ambulances have shut down at speed. Now all hybrid ambulances (30% of fleet) are quarantined until the hybrid systems can be removed.

toronto.citynews.ca

120 Toronto hybrid-converted ambulances pulled off road as precaution after failures

A Toronto Paramedic Services wouldn't say when it's anticipated the issues facing a third of the service's fleet will be fully resolved.
toronto.citynews.ca toronto.citynews.ca

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Part of the retrofit was solar panels on the roof of the ambulances. Peak greenwashing right there. It will be a miracle if that ever generates enough useful power to cover the energy it cost to make. The emergency response vehicles got 20 watt panels. wtf.

Panels are a great idea when mounted in a way that maximizes exposure. In practice, this means building roofs or over parking lots. About the only position worse than a vehicle roof is bleeping solar roads.
 
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You would think that there would be some clause that parts and service MUST be available for the next XX years.
 
GreyGhost said:
Pay millions to pretend to be green without vetting the system. Send all the systems to the dump two years later. Sounds green to me. /s Lots of money lit on fire and lots of parts in the dump. Minimal benefit by any metric.

TL: DR Feds and city spent millions to convert ambulances to hybrids in 2020. Hybrid system was sole-sourced by government. Predicted 12 year lifespan. Company that made the hybrid system ceased operation in 2022 and repair parts are unavailable. A few ambulances have shut down at speed. Now all hybrid ambulances (30% of fleet) is quarantined until the hybrid systems can be removed.

toronto.citynews.ca

120 Toronto hybrid-converted ambulances pulled off road as precaution after failures

A Toronto Paramedic Services wouldn't say when it's anticipated the issues facing a third of the service's fleet will be fully resolved.
toronto.citynews.ca toronto.citynews.ca

EDIT:

Part of the retrofit was solar panels on the roof of the ambulances. Peak greenwashing right there. It will be a miracle if that ever generates enough useful power to cover the energy it cost to make. The emergency response vehicles got 20 watt panels. wtf.

Panels are a great idea when mounted in a way that maximizes exposure. In practice, this means building roofs or over parking lots. About the only position worse than a vehicle roof is bleeping solar roads.
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I know a fleet manager that was asked to get prices for E heavy trucks. He could buy a diesel chassis for $150,000. And electric version would be $450,000 and get half the range.
 
nobbie48 said:
I know a fleet manager that was asked to get prices for E heavy trucks. He could buy a diesel chassis for $150,000. And electric version would be $450,000 and get half the range.
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Not surprised but you really need to look at total cost of ownership. A friend is picking up an Ioniq 6 this weekend. His monthly gas bill was about half of the new car payment. The amount he saves on fuel is substantially higher than the delta between the ICE vehicles they were looking at and the Ioniq. Once the car payments are done, that is hundreds a month saved and over the lifetime of the car should make the electric much much cheaper than the ICE in TCO even though it was thousands more up front.
 
GreyGhost said:
Not surprised but you really need to look at total cost of ownership. A friend is picking up an Ioniq 6 this weekend. His monthly gas bill was about half of the new car payment. The amount he saves on fuel is substantially higher than the delta between the ICE vehicles they were looking at and the Ioniq. Once the car payments are done, that is hundreds a month saved and over the lifetime of the car should make the electric much much cheaper than the ICE in TCO even though it was thousands more up front.
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The units he operates have PTOs that would drain the batteries. That would mean needing twice as many vehicles and drivers to run them.
 
nobbie48 said:
The units he operates have PTOs that would drain the batteries. That would mean needing twice as many vehicles and drivers to run them.
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Electric only may never work for every application. Given some smart and targeted plans, it can work for most applications. For instance, trucks that use blowers to unload could use a site based blower instead of truck mounted units. That solves a lot of issues but is rarely implemented right now as PTO power is cheap and available. Targeting "green" money at locations where diesels are at high idle for hours makes a far bigger difference than canadian tire solar panels on the roof of an ambulance.
 
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TwistedKestrel said:
This isn't surprising in the least but it is still aggravating
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In life as in business I usually* always got three quotes. You give more people a shot at the work and the losers often stand out quickly.
How this is not mandated for all gov work astounds me.

*I live in a small town asking the locals can steer you to the right folks fast too.
 
timtune said:
In life as in business I usually* always got three quotes. You give more people a shot at the work and the losers often stand out quickly.
How this is not mandated for all gov work astounds me.

*I live in a small town asking the locals can steer you to the right folks fast too.
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Many greenwash projects start as pitches to the local elected morons. Talk about the climate change emergency and no time to waste. Bonus points if you have a solution that you say is developed in Canada. Politicians aren't concerned about whether the solution works nor whether it is the best option (or even a remotely decent one). It's all about what sounds good at a press conference.
 
GreyGhost said:
Not surprised but you really need to look at total cost of ownership. A friend is picking up an Ioniq 6 this weekend. His monthly gas bill was about half of the new car payment. The amount he saves on fuel is substantially higher than the delta between the ICE vehicles they were looking at and the Ioniq. Once the car payments are done, that is hundreds a month saved and over the lifetime of the car should make the electric much much cheaper than the ICE in TCO even though it was thousands more up front.
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How long did he wait for the 6? I read those are great but impossible to find and expensive like hell.

When I was considering the GTI I looked at a full EV and the difference didn’t make sense considering how much I drive…would never even put considering it’s an additional 20-30k up front (paid 28500$ all in on the GTI).

Add another $300/month in fuel and the costs start getting similar.

Model 3 is an additional $100/month in insurance costs when I last checked.
 
mimico_polak said:
How long did he wait for the 6? I read those are great but impossible to find and expensive like hell.

When I was considering the GTI I looked at a full EV and the difference didn’t make sense considering how much I drive…would never even put considering it’s an additional 20-30k up front (paid 28500$ all in on the GTI).

Add another $300/month in fuel and the costs start getting similar.

Model 3 is an additional $100/month in insurance costs when I last checked.
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I was surprised. Purchase to delivery was about a week.

He has a long commute so his fuel bill is bigger. That helps the economics.

He has family that will install a level 2 charger for him, that helps economics. He didn't know about level 1 and that may be good enough tbh with a slow decline during the week and catching up on the weekends.
 
GreyGhost said:
I was surprised. Purchase to delivery was about a week.

He has a long commute so his fuel bill is bigger. That helps the economics.

He has family that will install a level 2 charger for him, that helps economics. He didn't know about level 1 and that may be good enough tbh with a slow decline during the week and catching up on the weekends.
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Wow nice! If I was to trade in the GTI now it'd be another 20k in financing which I can make up in fuel pretty quick.

Unless something changes (I break a leg, or wife REALLY needs to drive the GTI), I'm not changing for the time being. 1.5 years until the warranty runs out on the GTI.
 
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