1964 Honda S90

[tricky]

With my Honda CT90 winding down, I cracked and picked up an S90 for a couple hundred bucks a few months ago

The tear-down:

This project could end before it really started though. The serial is S90-468404. Unfortunately, Service Ontario tells me this was never registered in Ontario. My only chance to get this bike on the road is to find the last region (province or state) in which it was registered on the road. This is the longest of long-shots, and this is coming from the guy who has transferred bikes without ownership papers before.

I confirmed with Manitoba that it was never registered there. Quebec would be next, but they require a Quebecois license to get a vehicle history. And they work bankers hours too. But I will keep at it. I have already contacted Honda on a Hail Mary, too. I don't know why I'm doing this, but it's a cool bike and I would hate the buck to stop with me.

 

[Riceburner]

You are a glutton for punishment. Keep it up.

 

[J_F]

a literal basket case

good luck

the sworn affidavit routine won't work to get a reg?

 

[GreyGhost]

the sworn affidavit routine won't work to get a reg?

Short VIN doesn't make anyone's life easier.

Worst case, that looks a lot like a CT-90 to me You do good enough work, I'm sure you can "find" the appropriate manufacturers plate.

 

[tricky]

a literal basket case

good luck

the sworn affidavit routine won't work to get a reg?

Short VIN doesn't make anyone's life easier.

Worst case, that looks a lot like a CT-90 to me You do good enough work, I'm sure you can "find" the appropriate manufacturers plate.

The ADVRider forum has been great, right out the gate several members offered advice and help, suggesting routes through South Carolina, Tennessee and Vermont to get it titled via the "barn find" route. The problem with that is then importing it back into Canada, I may need it to be fully operational for that to happen, I'm not 100% sure.

I have friends in Quebec who will help me run the VIN there and see if anything shakes loose. I have an inquiry in with Service Ontario to see what can be done, maybe we can go the affidavit route. I am also hoping that any day, Honda emails me telling me they know where they sold it, but I know that's a pipe dream!

You are a glutton for punishment. Keep it up.

I originally bought it mostly for the parts, it has some commonality with the CT90. But then I ****ed up and sat on the bike when I got it back home, and all plans of parting it out disappeared immediately

I'll take your input on colour this time around! It's time I put together a bike that wasn't grey or black

In the meantime, I'm gonna come up with a list that puts me on a path to a rolling chassis.
- Clean and paint the frame, tank, swingarm, and fork ears the appropriate colour
- Clean up fenders, triples, forks, handlebars, rear brake lever. I'm not yet if they are real chrome or just silver paint
- Clean and paint miscellaneous stuff black (rear brake light bracket, center stand, rear brake torsion arm, etc)

Need new:
- Tank emblems (most important)
- Tubes, tires, rims and spokes
- Brake shoes
- Headlight bucket and headlight
- Chain and sprockets
- Seat cover
- Rear shocks
- Fork gators (maybe? I may have an extra set from the CT90)
- Fuel petcock (probably)
- Indicators

If I missed something, don't hesitate to let me know

 

[GreyGhost]

What's the prognosis for the motor in a box? Terminal/repairable/completely unknown?

Any ideas on why someone took the bike apart in the first place?

 

[tricky]

What's the prognosis for the motor in a box? Terminal/repairable/completely unknown?

Any ideas on why someone took the bike apart in the first place?

It's not great. The motor came with no head, the jug is there though. I don't think terminal, nothing too serious popped out at me. But it will need the whole 9 yards, top and bottom, new everything, bore it out a size (or more) up. The piston was pretty scored on one side if I recall correctly

Probably what I will do is rebuild the motor when I rebuild my CT90 motor. I want to do those two motors right, learning (instead of paying someone else) to measure and true the cranks, etc, etc. But right now on my desk are two 400 2-stroke motors with more priority. If I get the rolling chassis for the S90 done, or far enough along, I can go with another Lifan 125 until the original motor is rebuilt

The story, as I'm told by the guy who sold it, his dad got the bike in lieu of a cash payment for some mechanical work done. The bike sat for 15 or 20 years, with the dad intending on restoring it, but he passed away. Even 15-20 years ago, the bike would have been 35-40 years old, so maybe someone along the way started to rebuild the motor and quit, I suppose

 

[tricky]

I am still working on figuring out a path to titling the bike.. but in the meantime! I got distracted by the S90 gas tank today while trying to clean the garage

I thought it was cool that the chrome side panels come off pretty easy

And luckier still that the rubber pads came off without the rubber disintegrating!

I had some old Quick-Glo lying around, and it worked really well in cleaning up the chrome side panels

I think the Quick-Glo has some rust preventative properties which should stop the chrome pitting from getting worse. The backs of the side panels weren't chromed, and they had some rust, so I used a rust converter to stop it from getting worse. I sauced both side panels liberally in WD40 and put them on the backburner for now

The gas tank is a little sad, but I've seen worse

I just took some simple green and a tooth brush, and took off some of the grime

It's not great, the rust spots on the top of the tank are an eye sore. The paint under the chrome panels is flawless though! The inside of the tank has some mild rust spots, but its not bad at all.

I'm not sure if I'm going to do anything about this gas tank for the time being. I think I may focus my efforts on making sure the frame, swingarm, wheels and forks are brought back to top-notch shape. The cosmetic imperfections like this tank's rust spots, or the fenders, can be further down the list I suppose, once the bike is running.

 

[tricky]

Spent some more time going over the parts today...

Handlebars

The controls were a little grimy

I blew some of the dust off the ultrasonic cleaner and started up a brew

Some time in the cleaner took off the majority of the grime. The switches seem to work good, I do see a few wires which will need to be repaired though

The handlebars are looking ok! They definitely have a story to tell though

In the future, I will fix up the wiring inside the switches, then put the handlebars back together as a unit. On these bikes it is a bit of a pain, because the wiring is run through the inside of the handlebar

Onto the front of the bike,

Many spiders have called this bike their home

Scrubbing the lower triple. It has some surface rust, I think I will throw a coat of paint on it in the near future

One of the forks

I got stuck for about 30 minutes at this part of the disassembly, until I found that whole chrome cap on the left side comes off and the fork seal is contained within it. Shout out to Steves Workshop (http://www.steves-workshop.co.uk/vehicles/hondas90/forks/forkrebuild.htm) for showing me how to solve that riddle

The oil in there was like a thick chocolate milk

Ultrasonic round 2, with most of the fork components

I put them back together after a cleaning and thorough rinsing in WD40. The tops and bottoms of the forks aren't great, but I think thats mostly cosmetic. The working area on them is still pretty good, there are some score marks but all in all they are OK I think (the top one in this picture is compressed). I did order new fork seals, but they aren't here yet

I will try these forks out on the bike. If there are big issues with their performance, I can either try the original CT90 set that I have in storage (I put new heavy duty forks on the CT90), or I could get a new set. We'll see, but I am trying not to spend money where I don't have to

 

[TK4]

"I have an inquiry in with Service Ontario to see what can be done, maybe we can go the affidavit route. I am also hoping that any day, Honda emails me telling me they know where they sold it, but I know that's a pipe dream!"

Its not likely Honda Canada has any record. It was imported when Manley's was the distributor.

"The tops and bottoms of the forks aren't great, but I think that's mostly cosmetic. The working area on them is still pretty good, there are some score marks but all in all they are OK I think." ​

Handy trick from a friend - fill the score marks with Super Glue and then wipe them down. Hard to believe but it works.


​

 

[tricky]

I have been working on the wheels lately! This is how they came,

I decided to try to re-lace them with new rims and spokes. I have never done this before, so I have a lot to learn

Firstly, I cut off the old spokes, and threw them out with the rims. I removed the bearings and seals from the hubs, and they got cleaned, with a toothbrush first and then the ultrasonic cleaner. They aren't concourse quality of course, but they are clean and serviceable. I installed new bearings after the cleaning, and put new cush drive rubber in the rear

I got the new rims from David Silver spares. The spokes are from eBay, unfortunately I could not find a more reputable dealer. Maybe Buchanan's, but that seemed extreme to me. The spoke set (marketed as F+R) had two different gauge spokes. I put the heavier gauge on the rear, figuring it is the wheel that has to transfer the power. I hope I was right

Next up is the tricky part, truing the wheels. Unfortunately the shaft for my wheel balancer/improvised truing stand is bigger than the axle diameter of the bike, so I have to buy a smaller rod to use.

Handy trick from a friend - fill the score marks with Super Glue and then wipe them down. Hard to believe but it works.
​

I've heard about this, I will definitely give it a shot!

 

[boyoboy]

Short VIN doesn't make anyone's life easier.

Worst case, that looks a lot like a CT-90 to me You do good enough work, I'm sure you can "find" the appropriate manufacturers plate.

I had a 66? T-20 suzuki hustler that I got an ownership for; the vin came up triumph 650 lol, so I took the vin and added the serial number of the engine. That was my new vin after an affadavit. you can/should be able get an ownership ...

 

[Riceburner]

Best of luck to you. I do bicycle wheels, but have never bothered to completely re-lace a set. Just take your time.

 

[tricky]

I had a 66? T-20 suzuki hustler that I got an ownership for; the vin came up triumph 650 lol, so I took the vin and added the serial number of the engine. That was my new vin after an affadavit. you can/should be able get an ownership ...

I haven't done much work on that front yet, but from what I hear on GTAM and ADVRider, it should be doable. You are giving me hope

Best of luck to you. I do bicycle wheels, but have never bothered to completely re-lace a set. Just take your time.

Thanks! I think I understand the principles behind truing the wheel, after watching videos and reading about it. Thread all spokes on the same amount, then tighten them alternating around the wheel, with adjustments for the hop and run-out as needed. I will just keep plucking away at it until I get it.

Lacing them wasn't bad at all. These wheels each use 2 different kinds of spokes, in a standard 36 spoke pattern so it was about as easy an introduction as I could get. Total time, start to finish, probably 1.5 hours, but that includes all my mistakes and googling. Probably would take me about 30 minutes total to lace up another pair.

 

[tricky]

We have a new beating heart for the S90, a Piranha 140cc, courtesy of Keith at PhatMX.

The bad news - the S90 uses a 3-bolt engine style. Pit bike engines are 2-bolt. None of the holes will line up out of the gate.
The good news - the engine mount bolts on the S90 are be the right diameter, I think. The bolts I have are from the box the engine came in, so I am assuming they are two of the standard S90 engine mount bolts.

Below we see the extent of the problem

Because the S90 isn't that common, there isn't a whole lot of documentation on swapping in a pit bike engine, just a few mentions here and there. I'm trying to figure out what works, using the resources on the Honda S90 Yahoo group, as well as the Honda Clones Yahoo group. I'll update here when I've solved it

 

[tricky]

So its been a while I guess. Good news though - I got the bike titled in my name, with the bill of sale and an affidavit. I thought it was a long shot, which is why I've been dragging my heals on this one. No ownership, no history of registration anywhere. But by chance, I ended up at the Orangeville Service Ontario and asked them about the situation, and they said it wasn't a problem.

As for the bike, I continued where I left off. I want to put a pit bike engine in it for a few reasons.

1. We've had a great experience with the Lifan swap in the CT90, even with the loss of the dual-range sub transmission
2. The original engine was in terrible shape, and came without a cylinder head. ($$$)
3. CDI and 12v electrics, among other advances since 1965
4. A bit more power, 8hp up to maybe 11hp

As I said in the previous post, documentation is thin on how to mount a 2-bolt pit bike engine to a 3-bolt S90 frame. These bikes aren't too common, so its hard to find examples of how people who have done it, even though apparently many have. So hopefully this post can help someone else who may be looking to do the same thing.

What I did first was grind away some of the frame so that the rear engine mounts lined up. This is not something I would normally do to a vintage bike, but it was largely cosmetic (except for the original middle engine mount hole) and could be replaced if needed. We were wondering at what RPM Mr. Soichiro Honda was rotating in his grave while this happened. Red is original engine mounts, green is the Piranha mounts.

I had an idea to create an adapter plate to bolt the Piranha top mount to the frame. I made some rough shapes with cardboard. Then a friend of mine 3D printed my idea, and I used them to finalize the design.

The adapter cradle bolts to the frame at the purple locations, and the Piranha bolts up to the yellow holes.

Here it is together, (using screwdrivers as bolts because I only had 2). After this picture was taken, I removed a little more frame from around the Piranha top mount, so the bolt would fit properly.

So that's the plan. I'm going to tweak the design a little further, and get the plates and spacers made out of steel.

With the frame modifications done, I'm going to try to paint it soon-ish. I am going to paint match with the gas tank. This blue is odd - from what I gather, the S90 wasn't sold in this color. Either it's super uncommon, or someone painted it along the way. If they did - they did a really good job. A bit more mystery added to the history of this bike I guess. Anyway, I will attempt to keep it this blue color.

 

[Rob Star]

sweet project man

 

[STARSHIP]

S90s were mostly black or Honda red and metallic red and blue in later years when they had chrome fenders. They were many around in my youth. Finally owned one briefly years ago.

 

[tricky]

One last mockup with the 3d printed engine adapter. I just had to make a few tweaks to the original design. Now everything seems to go together well. Next up I will have to make them out of metal, now that I know it should work.

With the fabrication (hopefully) being over, I primed and painted the frame and swingarm. It was a standard-issue rattle can paint job, won't win me any Concours competitions but it's good enough for me.

I used Volkswagen Indigo Blue, which people online have said is as close as you can get to this vintage Honda dark blue (I still haven't seen another S90 this shade of blue, though I have seen Honda Dreams from the 60's in this color). I know the lighting in this photo is garbage, but the color is pretty well bang-on when compared to the undisturbed paint on the tank, under the chrome side plate.

Then I painted the hardware needed to get a rolling chassis going. This is wrong, the center stand and fork ears should be blue, and the top triple and handlebar clamps should be some sort of brushed metal or fake chrome. But black paint is what I had, and I kind of dig how it turned out on the CT90. Also, the headlight bucket I have for this S90 is black, and the rear shocks are also black. So I think I will end up with a blue bike, with black accents and some chrome sprinkled in. Not sure if this will be a success or an eyesore. Buckle up and let's find out.

For reference, on the CT90

Next time I get to work on it, I should be able to get a rolling chassis out of it Shooting for later this week, but who knows.

 

[roadcapDen]

Nice, looking for a battery side panel for my S90.