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- Thread starter Twotons
- Start date
You will have a hard time cornering/leaning the bike with a stunt cage and from what I understand they're not very light. You're better off buying track fairings and hope for the best! As well as all the crash protection you can afford, case covers, frame sliders, etc. there are also carbon fibre tank protectors for your bike in case you go down.
See what he wants for these:
http://www.cherrypickerracing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22073&PN=1
http://www.cherrypickerracing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22073&PN=1
I would never use a full stunt cage on a track because the lower bars will touch down very easily at mild lean angles. Especially when you get close to the turtles, I actually scraped my bodywork at Calabogie. So a cage is out of the question, I took them off when I went to the track and used woodcraft sliders...They have done well for me many times
Then there is also the chance that even a half or race rails style cage will cause your bike to do backflips...The same happens with some with some frame sliders and they aren't as strong as a cage....I saw a R1 go down in front of me at Calabogie, once his bike hit the turtles the sliders caused his bike to tumble, I saw the thing flipping 20 feet in the air. Broken rims and a yard sale, needless to say his day was over....
I have talked to some track riders that wont even run frame sliders for that reason
I will post a pic of a friends bike that crashed with a stunt cage, the cage was so strong it ripped the whole engine mount right off the frame...Cage was still attached to the piece of the frame lol
Crash cages are really designed for side impacts, dropping a bike sidesways doing stunt, not really sliding, and they can actually cause a bike to slide way further as the tubings acts like a pair of skis for the bike to slide on
Then there is also the chance that even a half or race rails style cage will cause your bike to do backflips...The same happens with some with some frame sliders and they aren't as strong as a cage....I saw a R1 go down in front of me at Calabogie, once his bike hit the turtles the sliders caused his bike to tumble, I saw the thing flipping 20 feet in the air. Broken rims and a yard sale, needless to say his day was over....
I have talked to some track riders that wont even run frame sliders for that reason
I will post a pic of a friends bike that crashed with a stunt cage, the cage was so strong it ripped the whole engine mount right off the frame...Cage was still attached to the piece of the frame lol
Crash cages are really designed for side impacts, dropping a bike sidesways doing stunt, not really sliding, and they can actually cause a bike to slide way further as the tubings acts like a pair of skis for the bike to slide on
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Stunt cages will generally cause more problems than they solve when used on the race track. If they serve their primary function then they will be the first parts that contact the ground when leaned over ... i.e. they will reduce cornering clearance. I've got scrape marks on the lower fairing of my race bike that were not caused by crashing ... so there is no room for further reduction of cornering clearance.
Even so-called frame sliders (mounted as usual, to engine mount bolts with no "give" at all) can cause more problems than they solve. They are fine for low-speed tip-overs. But if you toss it down the track, there is a significant chance that the bike will hit something solid (curb, rocks, etc) while it is sliding on its side. Fiberglass fairings can give a little bit and give the bike a fighting chance of soaking up the hit. But if a solid engine-bolt-mounted frame slider strikes an immovable object, something WILL give ... like the frame of the bike, or the engine case itself. Really really bad. That undamaged plastic fairing looks really good when it is covering up the bent frame of your bike with the engine mount busted off the crankcase because that's what the frame slider transmitted the impact to.
Naked is not good, either. Fiberglass fairings are cheaper than radiators or many of the other bits that they cover up - and help to protect.
Roadrace bikes, generally, have aftermarket fiberglass fairings, toughened crankcase covers (depends on the shape of the engine), and MIGHT have a few unobtrusive sliders on axle ends and handlebar ends, and maybe clutch and brake levers with designed-in break points, but generally not engine-bolt-mounted frame sliders, and certainly not stunt cages.
I helped someone on this forum build a set of frame sliders for his bike (unobtainium Japanese grey import) and we intentionally mounted the frame slider on a piece of steel flat bar away from the engine mount bolts. The flat bar extended between two of the engine mount bolts, but the frame slider itself attached to the middle of that bar, away from the engine bolts. The idea is that the flat bar should be strong enough if the bike has a tip-over or normal low-side, but if the bike slides into a curb, the flat bar should take the hit and bend, absorbing the hit, hopefully without transmitting enough of the direct impact to the engine bolts to cause a problem for the frame or engine. We can hammer back into shape, or re-make, a flat bar with two holes in it and a nut welded to the back. Frames and crankcases, not so easy.
Even so-called frame sliders (mounted as usual, to engine mount bolts with no "give" at all) can cause more problems than they solve. They are fine for low-speed tip-overs. But if you toss it down the track, there is a significant chance that the bike will hit something solid (curb, rocks, etc) while it is sliding on its side. Fiberglass fairings can give a little bit and give the bike a fighting chance of soaking up the hit. But if a solid engine-bolt-mounted frame slider strikes an immovable object, something WILL give ... like the frame of the bike, or the engine case itself. Really really bad. That undamaged plastic fairing looks really good when it is covering up the bent frame of your bike with the engine mount busted off the crankcase because that's what the frame slider transmitted the impact to.
Naked is not good, either. Fiberglass fairings are cheaper than radiators or many of the other bits that they cover up - and help to protect.
Roadrace bikes, generally, have aftermarket fiberglass fairings, toughened crankcase covers (depends on the shape of the engine), and MIGHT have a few unobtrusive sliders on axle ends and handlebar ends, and maybe clutch and brake levers with designed-in break points, but generally not engine-bolt-mounted frame sliders, and certainly not stunt cages.
I helped someone on this forum build a set of frame sliders for his bike (unobtainium Japanese grey import) and we intentionally mounted the frame slider on a piece of steel flat bar away from the engine mount bolts. The flat bar extended between two of the engine mount bolts, but the frame slider itself attached to the middle of that bar, away from the engine bolts. The idea is that the flat bar should be strong enough if the bike has a tip-over or normal low-side, but if the bike slides into a curb, the flat bar should take the hit and bend, absorbing the hit, hopefully without transmitting enough of the direct impact to the engine bolts to cause a problem for the frame or engine. We can hammer back into shape, or re-make, a flat bar with two holes in it and a nut welded to the back. Frames and crankcases, not so easy.
Its just they way it goes, you crash your going to damage something...Thats why you take all the expensive plastics and headlights off and get race body that is cheaper to fix and tends to hold up better then OEM plastic that shatters and are expensive...
Mina just had a get off recently, he took my advice and got woodcraft sliders, and I think they did very well in minimizing his damage. I run them also, and also have them do really well for me in minimizing damage....
The thing is you are not going to totally eliminate the damage with one product like a cage, just doesnt work that way....It can actually do the exact opposite for you in certain crashs
case and point
If you cant see it look at the cage, there is a piece of the frame still attached to it that ripped off with the cage. If you look at the bike the piece that got ripped off used to be the right side motor mount
Think of it this way, the frame is not only very expensive but the whole bike has to come apart to replace it, so unless you can do that yourself that is some serious $$$$.....And unlike cosmetic damage to your fairings, you cant ride the bike untill its replaced...
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This dude crashed with Race Railz and dented his frame:
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154800
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154800
Thats a scratch! not a dent lol but looks like he had a very small get off, like a tip over with no sliding....Would be worse if it was more serious
That race rail has a bad rep on GSXR's because of the way they mount....That engine mount is hollow cast aluminum, so for them to spread the load there is a bad idea....I have seen ones that crack because of that design
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Needless to say, I won't even put them on my street bike, let a lone a race/track bike.
Misleading name, for a product that is completely unsuitable for racing, isn't it ... ! ! !
"No cut" frame sliders get a bad name for not being as solid because they don't attach directly to an engine mount. Well, maybe a designed-in weak point that can absorb some energy, might be a good thing. I'd rather bend the mounting bracket for a frame slider, than the frame of the bike. Same idea as how we custom-designed the slider brackets I mentioned before.
