04 zx10 shifting issue?

ajaxguy

ajaxguy

Well-known member
I am wondering if anyone can tell me what this problem would be. I am considering a bike from someone off here and they told me this about it "There's just a small problem with second gear when accelerating hard. It'll jerk at 5500 rpm and 7000 rpm" I have read a couple places and am pretty sure it is tranny.

Anyone else have an idea on this? money wise how much would it cost to fix?
 
That's as pretty vague discription, "jerk" under hard acceleration? Is it a clunking type of feel or is the throttle fully open at say 4000rpm and as the rpm builds it jerks/hesitate then rpms jump? You'd have to ride the bike to actually see what's going on unless someone else knows about a problem with these trannys. Other than being notchy I haven't heard of anything, BrianP knows alot about these bikes so maybie pm him.

I have one of these bikes, they're a lot of fun but check the frame for any cracks on the welds and there was a front wheel recall.
 
Pretty easy diagnosis (classic symptoms).
The second gear dogs are rounded off.
This occurs after repeated first > second shifts at redline.
Caused by second gear not fully engaging due to rushed/hurried shift and imperfect technique.
Racing bikes will have the gear dogs 'undercut' so that when half-engaged, the undercut dogs will draw the two gears solidly together.
But stock streetbike dogs are perfectly square.
After a while, and the repeated abuse of hard shifting at high RPM, the bike 'pops' out of second gear at unexpected moments (usually not at wide-open throttle) and first > second mis-shifts become much more common.
Need new gears bro...
Shift forks and their springs should be inspected too, during the repair.
'Cure' is to shift first > second below redline, very deliberately, even when in a big hurry.
Tranny repair is not inexpensive (mostly labour).
 
Thats some good info and ya he mentioned something about the gear dogs. So when you say needs new gears, I will have to replace the tranny? Can they just be rebuilt? also, can it run like this on a regular basis without causing even more damage?


Gryphon said:
Pretty easy diagnosis (classic symptoms).
The second gear dogs are rounded off.
This occurs after repeated first > second shifts at redline.
Caused by second gear not fully engaging due to rushed/hurried shift and imperfect technique.
Racing bikes will have the gear dogs 'undercut' so that when half-engaged, the undercut dogs will draw the two gears solidly together.
But stock streetbike dogs are perfectly square.
After a while, and the repeated abuse of hard shifting at high RPM, the bike 'pops' out of second gear at unexpected moments (usually not at wide-open throttle) and first > second mis-shifts become much more common.
Need new gears bro...
Shift forks and their springs should be inspected too, during the repair.
'Cure' is to shift first > second below redline, very deliberately, even when in a big hurry.
Tranny repair is not inexpensive (mostly labour).
Click to expand...
 
you can buy a used trans....might be a cheap option if your doing it yourself....or I think someone out there would undercut gears...but might get pricy.

I've always gone with the used transmission option.
 
Ya that would be alot easier, but just finding one is the problem.

frekeyguy said:
you can buy a used trans....might be a cheap option if your doing it yourself....or I think someone out there would undercut gears...but might get pricy.

I've always gone with the used transmission option.
Click to expand...
 
ajaxguy said:
Ya that would be alot easier, but just finding one is the problem.
Click to expand...

I look for blown motors....people will want $150 to $200 for a blown motor with case covers without throttle bodies...

Lets say $300 (high end)...sell case covers for $100....head for $50....clutch with baskets $150....misc parts/sensors for $50.....you might be making some money in the end + get a nice trans out of it....
 
Be aware that although people make it sound simple "just change the trans", its a fairly big and skilled job. You have to split the engine cases and tear the engine down about %50 to get to the trans...Then reseal and re torque the engine case bolts...Not everyone is capable of this as a do it yourself project, and shops charge a lot for it also
 
JohnnyP636 said:
Be aware that although people make it sound simple "just change the trans", its a fairly big and skilled job. You have to split the engine cases and tear the engine down about %50 to get to the trans...Then reseal and re torque the engine case bolts...Not everyone is capable of this as a do it yourself project, and shops charge a lot for it also
Click to expand...

not unless he goes to someone like you....

PS: OP....see if Johnny will take on this job....one of the few people here that'd you can trust to do a job like this.....you'll save a ton of $$ in the long run....im sure he has done a few trans swap jobs in the last few years and would have ALL The tools/parts/sealers/specs do this properly....

Its worth a PM.......

I don't think anyone has left his place less than happy...
 
Hey you don't need a new tranny - just a new second gear.
(Maybe a first gear too.)
Again, brand-new parts are not too-too much.
Coupla hours labour though... maybe four, heheh, at ~$90 per.
Again, these gears spin on a common shaft and they engage side-to-side, so no other part of your tranny would necessarily be affected (damaged).

If you're not into it all right now or whatever, just ride it.
Tranny won't blow up or anything like that...
It's perfectly safe to drive (except it's got a flakey second gear).
The big danger is hitting 20,000 RPM if you encounter a neutral whilst you're taking a big pull on second gear, LoL.
L8R
 
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Well some good info thats for sure. If I can save on time by just swapping the 1st and 2nd gear then even better. I will see if i can find something, but gonna PM Johnny and see if he has any contacts for thsi stuff.
 
Gryphon said:
Hey you don't need a new tranny - just a new second gear.
(Maybe a first gear too.)
Again, brand-new parts are not too-too much.
Coupla hours labour though... maybe four, heheh, at ~$90 per.
Again, these gears spin on a common shaft and they engage side-to-side, so no other part of your tranny would necessarily be affected (damaged).

If you're not into it all right now or whatever, just ride it.
Tranny won't blow up or anything like that...
It's perfectly safe to drive (except it's got a flakey second gear).
The big danger is hitting 20,000 RPM if you encounter a neutral whilst you're taking a big pull on second gear, LoL.
L8R
Click to expand...

Have you ever actually fixed a slipping 2nd gear? 99% of the time because of the gear has been slipping out, it bends 2 out of 3 shift forks, and can also damage the shift drum groove....Just the 2 gears alone that engage for 2nd run about $80-100 for one and $100-150 for the other, about another $80-100 each for the shift forks, and $200 or so shall you be unlucky enough to need a new shift drum...Not including some clips that should be replaced when removed from the shafts, and new gaskets and oil....If try to skip out and you dont change all the parts at once, your problem will be back very soon....Every time the gear slips out and back in it causes more and more damage, so there is really no way to know how much damage was done until you open it...

That is the reason people are saying its better to buy a used engine or trans for $200-300 rather then spend $400-600 on new parts, that will also very likely be back ordered for 2 weeks

Also if you can find a shop that will drop an engine, rebuild the tranny and put it back in for 4 hours labor, Id love to know the name...I'd rather just pay them next time I need to rebuild one

And FYI yes I have personally rebuilt about 5 transmissions, both Yamaha and 04+ Kawasaki...In 2001 when I my 2nd gear started slipping on my 2001 R6, the well know local shop I was going to told me $1500 just to start, and could be anywhere between that and $2500 to fix....
 
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Gryphon said:
Hey you don't need a new tranny - just a new second gear.
(Maybe a first gear too.)
Again, brand-new parts are not too-too much.
Coupla hours labour though... maybe four, heheh, at ~$90 per.
Again, these gears spin on a common shaft and they engage side-to-side, so no other part of your tranny would necessarily be affected (damaged).
Click to expand...

Ummm NO

What you've stated above might be possible for an engine that has a so-called "cassette" transmission - in which the entire transmission can be slid out the side of the engine through an access cover. There are some engines designed like this. But the 2004 - 2010 ZX10R is not one of them.

JohnnyP is right. The transmission can only be serviced by splitting the crankcases. That requires removing the engine from the bike (4+ hours), and splitting the crankcases (another couple hours), then dealing with whatever parts need to be changed, then re-assembling the bottom end (4+ hours), then putting the engine back in the bike (6+ hours). Labour alone, paying someone shop rate to do it, this is not economically viable compared to not buying the particular bike in question and instead, buying a known-good one from someone else.

If you know which way to turn a wrench and how to identify things that are "good" from things that are "bad", pick the bike up really cheap and do the transmission over next winter yourself.
 
Well I appreciate all the help, I may need this for the future. The bike i was considering isnt gonna happen after all. We couldnt come to an agreement, so I will just buy one without the issue.
 
Brian P said:
Ummm NO

What you've stated above might be possible for an engine that has a so-called "cassette" transmission - in which the entire transmission can be slid out the side of the engine through an access cover. There are some engines designed like this. But the 2004 - 2010 ZX10R is not one of them.

JohnnyP is right. The transmission can only be serviced by splitting the crankcases. That requires removing the engine from the bike (4+ hours), and splitting the crankcases (another couple hours), then dealing with whatever parts need to be changed, then re-assembling the bottom end (4+ hours), then putting the engine back in the bike (6+ hours). Labour alone, paying someone shop rate to do it, this is not economically viable compared to not buying the particular bike in question and instead, buying a known-good one from someone else.

If you know which way to turn a wrench and how to identify things that are "good" from things that are "bad", pick the bike up really cheap and do the transmission over next winter yourself.
Click to expand...

Correct if you have a cassette transmission like my 09 ZX6R does, then were talking 30 min to remove the whole transmission through the clutch cover without even having to drop the engine or split cases...For Kawi 09 was the first year for that in the 600 I believe, in 04 I dont think there were any production Jap bikes coming with cassette trans...

IMG_0184-1.jpg
 
I just did this for my neighbour. His track bike is an 05 which is identical to the 04

Its a little easier to drop the engine on a track bike but the whole thing still took a good day + of work time. I ordered the parts from Thumpertalk. The new fork was $60 and the gears were $107 and $104 and another $20 for misc clips and shims. I was able to get 2 day shipping on them.

It may have been worth it if you could have got the bike for a good price and did it your self. Infact, I may be interested in it if the guy still has it and you don't want it
 
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