Power of Attorney

My wife is POA for her grandmother. It's mostly stress free, just routine calls from the nursing home with questions and updates, her grandmother is still of sound mind and able to make her own choices so that's good, but sometimes 'nan asks the home to run things past her to confirm if she think's it's a good decision regardless, so it's all cool.

The POA is handy for dealing with financial matters though as it allows her to not have to take her to the bank every time she wants to do something that would otherwise require her to go...something that is getting more and more challenging with mobility issues and all.

She's also executor. I don't look forward to that process, but her estate is very simple AFAIK, just a few bank accounts with a small amount of cash, some simple investments, and 4 people in the will that each get a predetermined amount of money that is currently set aside already, with any balance of whatever is left over going to my wife.

Her grandmother changed her POA a few years ago from another family member to my wife after there was some major disagreements and questionable decisions made on behalf of 'nan that she didn't always want or agree to and wasn't happy about after the fact, despite her still being of sound mind and able to make her own decisions of course. Thankfully it was all done through her lawyer with "of sound mind and in full agreement of these changes" well documented so that there shouldn't be any issues come the time to execute the will.

Stupid question but you need to agree to a poa/executor role right?

klr_guy said:

Stupid question but you need to agree to a poa/executor role right?

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Great question. For those where I have that role, they asked me but I never provided anything in writing nor spoke to any of the lawyers nor signed anything. That leads me to believe it could easily be done without my knowledge. I am pretty sure you can decide to say no to being executor when they die and then it gets punted to the government program where they become executor and pillage the estate. I would assume similar for medical POA and if you divested responsibility, medical board at the hospital would make the decisions.

GreyGhost said:

Great question. For those where I have that role, they asked me but I never provided anything in writing nor spoke to any of the lawyers nor signed anything. That leads me to believe it could easily be done without my knowledge. I am pretty sure you can decide to say no to being executor when they die and then it gets punted to the government program where they become executor and pillage the estate. I would assume similar for medical POA and if you divested responsibility, medical board at the hospital would make the decisions.

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Thanks, just anxious if my late wife's mother tries to rope me in. Already have three executor roles I've agreed to, not looking for another.

GreyGhost said:

I am pretty sure you can decide to say no to being executor when they die and then it gets punted to the government program where they become executor and pillage the estate. I would assume similar for medical POA and if you divested responsibility, medical board at the hospital would make the decisions.

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Correct.

GreyGhost said:

Great question. For those where I have that role, they asked me but I never provided anything in writing nor spoke to any of the lawyers nor signed anything. That leads me to believe it could easily be done without my knowledge. I am pretty sure you can decide to say no to being executor when they die and then it gets punted to the government program where they become executor and pillage the estate. I would assume similar for medical POA and if you divested responsibility, medical board at the hospital would make the decisions.

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You can renounce if you get hit by surprise or circumstances change. However, there is a no-turning-back point where you are in it for good. IIRC it's when you have started doling out any part of the estate.

If you are also an heir and aren't happy with your share, you can't contest and execute at the same time.

I had to tell a friend to remove me from the job as the complications were insane. I told him if he didn't, I'd renounce anyway. He's younger than me so probably a moot point.

Private individuals can pillage estates as well and burn up three quarters of the assets. The legal costs to go after compensation use up the other three quarters of the estate.

I thought you could just hand executor for an estate off to a lawyer when they die. Costs money but then all the fighting and bitterness goes to the lawyers

GVH said:

I thought you could just hand executor for an estate off to a lawyer when they die. Costs money but then all the fighting and bitterness goes to the lawyers

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You can probably do that if the estate has enough money for the lawyer to be interested. If the estate is small or even if it's small relative to the complications involved, I expect most lawyers wouldn't want to touch it. Banks also have employees that can deal with estates IIRC. Again, they are in it for the money and I suspect they will decline to participate in loser scenarios.

GVH said:

I thought you could just hand executor for an estate off to a lawyer when they die. Costs money but then all the fighting and bitterness goes to the lawyers

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If you renounce that's what may happen but keep in mind that the executor can be sued by the heirs if they don't feel they got what they feel they should have.

If the executor reads the will and / or gets a bad feeling from the heirs, he/she can opt out. If the executor hands the will to a lawyer that can be deemed as being involved and then can't back out.

The safest move for the executor is to just say to the heirs. "I have to renounce. You'll have to sort it out yourselves."

If the heirs and will are reasonable they will do things themselves in house. If not, they will all get lawyers to fight for more. As the individuals spend their own money on legal fees, they will demand bigger shares to cover those costs. The spiral of financial death.

My B-I-L didn't want the will settled because once he got any assets his creditors could go after them. Instead, he wanted to live in the house for decades with the will unsettled. The executor would have to babysit the estate for decades. It took three years to settle things and the house had to be sold to pay the legal bills.

My sister in laws mothers estate was 4 years to close. No real family fighting just tones of financial crap to figure out and settle plus 2 houses to clear out and sell. Vehicles to deal with.

My sister has all POA for my mom living and dead. After her heart attack we checked and redid / Fixed the her will. Had a family meeting with mom and discussed everything. Wrote up the living with the DNR.

We decided only one person for all all after watching and helping friends deal with their mothers badly setup living will. 3 children. 1 was living will health, 2 was living will, finance last had the rest. When she collapsed will walking with a helper ambulance call number 3 asking about DNR. Hospital asking same question to number 3. number 1 can't deal with the decision.

I will say when mom had the stroke and I'm local dealing with her in ER called my sister and she reminded and insisted I tell the ER docs mom has a DNR. Was a little hard but necessary.

I was executor for my parents. When dad died there was a will, but zero "where is everthing" documentation. Lots of unnecessary stress for me to ensure everything was accounted for. As previously arranged by my dad, there was a trust company involved in the estate and they did all of the heavy lifting re documentation and filings.

My mom survived for 20 years and her estate settlement went well, no hassles, no surprises as I had been involved in her day to day stuff for years. Still took about 2 years in total, mostly due to CRA related delays.

My spouse is executor + POA for 2 elderly relatives, 97 and 99. Both are well and living in residences. They have up tp date wills and their finances have been simplefied and well documented, so we know where everything is. We've known the beneficiaries in the wills for a minimum 40+ years, everyone gets an equal share and we anticipate no hassles as everyone involved is a reasonable and relatively sane person.

One of the ladies had her money all over the place and never sold anything. One mutual fund was purchased in 1968 for $2,000 and sold 2 months ago for $447,000, a testament to a buy and hold strategy I suppose. This was her best investment and return BTW, not typical of her other holdings which often earned a low rate of return and had an excessive fees IMO. Her financial advisors did well over the years..........

If you're going to be an executor or POA insist on seeing the will + a summary of the finances and other documentation. If the person hedges on this then tell them you're not interested. Also, you likely know the beneficiaries, if there is a troublemaker PITA type of person then decline as well. Who needs the hassle. Behaviors don't improve when a relative passes on.