What did you do in your garage today..?

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MCT said:
Since I know batteries and charging systems, I prefer to not leave my batteries on a battery charger/maintainer all the time
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Leaving a battery connected to a (dumb) charger all the time is indeed problematic as they just run constantly and will overcharge a battery.

Leaving a battery connected to a smart charger all the time is perfectly fine as it will turn off when it detects the battery is full. Many/most will not automatically turn on again however once they detect the battery is full and kick off, meaning that if you want to use this sort of setup for long term maintenance you'll need to come out and manually enable it again every 3-4 weeks to let it top-up and then turn off again. My Canadian Tire smart charger is like this.

Leaving a battery connected to a quality/smart battery maintainer/tender (brand name Battery Tender, Noco, Optimate, etc) is perfectly fine indefinitely as their entire design is that they only turn on when needed, and then turn off again, repeat as needed automatically. It's 100% what they are designed to do, and they can be left connected forever basically with no negatives whatsoever, only upsides. My wife's bike was left connected to my Optimate 5 maintainer for over 2 years at one point without being started (or the key even as much as turned on) when she didn't ride for a long time after her accident and when I did disconnect it and start the bike 2 years later it started like it had never been idle. This is exactly the use case they're designed for.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Leaving a battery connected to a (dumb) charger all the time is indeed problematic as they just run constantly and will overcharge a battery.
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This was a charger/maintainer meaning it goes into a "float mode" after the bulk and absorption stages are completed.

Having worked in a battery lab, I used to data log the whole charge algorithm of many chargers. At home, I have a MadgeTech voltage logger that I also use. And by the way, most of these popular chargers (CTEK, NOCO, etc) are built to a price point and are nothing special. But using any charger than does not overcharge a battery (especially if it is a VRLA battery) is better than nothing. Want a great charger, buy a Xantrex TrueCharge 2, but they are more for vehicle, ship, RV batteries.

Anyway, my shortest lived battery was the one in my 2016 R1200 GS Adventure at 7 years, 4 months. It being an AGM as well and it was always on a BMW charger/maintainer (Battery Tender I believe) that BMW threw in with the deal. I have never ever left a battery on a charger/maintainer in the past and my motorcycle FLA (Flooded Lead Acid - old tech) batteries always got me 9 full years out of them with them failing in the 10th year.

My factory installed car batteries lasted 14 and 16 years. The factory installed AGM in the sports car is 10 years old this spring. AGMs are new to me so we'll see what kind of life I get out of them
 
By the way, this is what CTEK lists for their Multi US 3300 charger. What does it tell me? SFA! Show some voltages.
CTEK Algorithm.jpg

And this is what my data logger measured. A charger that switches ON and OFF and ON and OFF repeatedly. So where exactly is that Pulse Mode?
CTEK Data Logging.jpg
 
For someone savvy who understands SOC voltages across different chemistries and is willing and able to keep on on a manual maintenance regiment, maintaining any battery perfectly manually using the dumbest of dumb chargers is indeed possible.

But for the average rider who just wants to plug the bike in when they put it away in the fall, and just wants it to start again come spring without the battery having depleted/sulphated/frozen/etc and needing replacement, it's hard to beat the sheer simplicity of a quality automatic maintainer. This has been my approach since forever and I too get 7-10 years out of all my FLA/SLA powersport batteries as well.

I build LifePo4 battery banks for RV's as a hobby, and although I know I can top balance individual cells and even charge the entire pack using a bench supply, when the batteries go into their end use, I tell the new owners to use a specific smart Lifeop4 charger I recommend for sheer simplicity, knowing the BMS will do the hard bits and the charger just needs to attain the required voltage for the required period of time, and the end user won't be overwhelmed/confused. ;)
 
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MCT said:
By the way, this is what CTEK lists for their Multi US 3300 charger. What does it tell me? SFA! Show some voltages.
View attachment 72993

And this is what my data logger measured. A charger that switches ON and OFF and ON and OFF repeatedly. So where exactly is that Pulse Mode?
View attachment 72994
Click to expand...
Isn't the definition of pulse “on and off”? Appears to be doing what it says it does if you attached a well maintained, fully charged battery? Maybe try a dead battery to see if it does something differently?
 
Relax said:
Isn't the definition of pulse “on and off”? Appears to be doing what it says it does if you attached a well maintained, fully charged battery? Maybe try a dead battery to see if it does something differently?
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True, but in any other charger/maintainer "maintenance mode" is a steady voltage and remains there so I would expect the pulse to swing between 13.4V and 13.5V for example. And if anyone is posting graphs, label the X and Y axis with values. CTEK and Battery Tender seem to do this. I like it when they tell me it is "proprietary". :rolleyes: All I need to do is run it on my data logger to know what it is.

I expect "Maintenance Mode" to be a certain voltage value based on the battery type and temperature.

Sort of like...
AGM.jpg
 
MCT said:
By the way, this is what CTEK lists for their Multi US 3300 charger. What does it tell me? SFA! Show some voltages.
View attachment 72993

And this is what my data logger measured. A charger that switches ON and OFF and ON and OFF repeatedly. So where exactly is that Pulse Mode?
View attachment 72994
Click to expand...
Given there is no scale for voltage or time from ctek, with some creative license on the shape, you may be displaying pulse mode.
 
Just saying....i have never had good luck leaving batteries hooked up to smart chargers all the time. I charge them ( smart charge) when I store them in nov and in feb. Works for me
 
GreyGhost said:
Given there is no scale for voltage or time from ctek, with some creative license on the shape, you may be displaying pulse mode.
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But looking at my data logger graph, I would not expect the charger to turn back on at 12.88V as that is a fully charged (AGM) battery at rest and even on the high side for a standard FLA old tech battery at rest (normally12.6V).

It is why I now disconnect my AGM at 12.9V, let the battery self discharge to 12.6V over a few weeks and then reconnect my charger for a few hours till I disconnect it again. I had far better luck doing it that way for longer battery life.
 
Fixed the kids atv today electrics were not working but if you turned the key on and jumped the solenoid it would start and run just no dash or lights. Key switch is just some copper buttons with a spring loaded bar that connects the power. Popped it apart cleaned the corrosion up and filled it with grease works perfect again. A new one is 8 dollars on Amazon I may get one anyway as the back of the switch is in the open right over the front tire.

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MCT said:
But looking at my data logger graph, I would not expect the charger to turn back on at 12.88V as that is a fully charged (AGM) battery at rest and even on the high side for a standard FLA old tech battery at rest (normally12.6V).

It is why I now disconnect my AGM at 12.9V, let the battery self discharge to 12.6V over a few weeks and then reconnect my charger for a few hours till I disconnect it again. I had far better luck doing it that way for longer battery life.
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Did you set it to AGM mode (the picture of the snowflake/Optima battery)? I have the same model, and it's never let me down in terms of maintaining batteries long term, or reviving abused batteries. Maybe it doesn't do exactly what it says it does, but I'm happy with the end results.
 
Relax said:
Did you set it to AGM mode (the picture of the snowflake/Optima battery)? I have the same model, and it's never let me down in terms of maintaining batteries long term, or reviving abused batteries. Maybe it doesn't do exactly what it says it does, but I'm happy with the end results.
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If it was an AGM, yes, if not then I use the standard "Car" battery mode or if it is a low Ah battery as in on a motorcycle, I'll use the "Motorcycle" low current mode.

I hardly use the CTEK anymore. I use the Harbor Freight Viking 4A 6/12V charger/maintaintainer with several modes. I like the fact that it displays the voltage otherwise I'd get my DMM out. I also use recommended charts based on battery type and temperature showing charge and maintain voltages.

Anyway, of course you are happy with the end results...using one is better than not using one at all. My point is I have never used one on a continuous basis (always connected 24/7/365) and those batteries where I "spot charged it" had a longer life. Of course you have to monitor battery voltage weekly.

By the way, exactly a week ago I disconnected my charger/maintainer from my motorcycle. Battery voltage a week ago was 12.9V; battery voltage a week later (today) is 12.9V. There is not need to continuously have it on a charger/maintainer unless you have a problem battery or a drain on it. I'll let you know what it is in another week.

Viking 4 Amp Charger Maintainer Accessories.jpg
 
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Having read all these posts I’m gonna go disconnect my battery tender from the bike.

I usually just keep it on all winter…
 
mimico_polak said:
Having read all these posts I’m gonna go disconnect my battery tender from the bike.

I usually just keep it on all winter…
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I disconnected mine a few weeks ago as I needed to move the bike up to fit the snow blower in.
I was going to connect it back up, I guess its good that I didn't. Hoping not to need to plug it in again till next winter.

When is riding weather going to be here?
 
A battery test of the factory installed BMW YUASA YTZ14S when it failed at 7 years 4 months and a new YUASA YTZ14S.
I used a TOPDON BT200 battery tester.

Battery - YUASA.jpg

A few things to note. Many people not clued into electronics will say the battery measured full voltage, somewhere between 12.6V and 12.9V. The voltage is never a true test of the battery's health. Note the 12.90V third line down (a fully charged battery that would not start the motorcycle), then look at the Internal R. A batteries true health is when you have full Ah capacity and low Internal Resistance. The last 4 lines in that chart.
 
Scuba Steve said:
I bet they throw a new motor on for 150 how much time can they spend trouble shooting.

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It's finally back. A little over a month to get repaired. Original tech diagnosed it as needing a throttle body. Bill to Husky was approaching $2000 and Husky was pushing back. That tech got canned. Head tech started again with diagnosis. He got to ignition coil problem that I had diagnosed and was going to replace before all this trying to go through warranty crap started. They replaced some broken brackets under warranty so not a complete waste but not worth the effort to drag it onto the trailer.
 
GreyGhost said:
It's finally back. A little over a month to get repaired. Original tech diagnosed it as needing a throttle body. Bill to Husky was approaching $2000 and Husky was pushing back. That tech got canned. Head tech started again with diagnosis. He got to ignition coil problem that I had diagnosed and was going to replace before all this trying to go through warranty crap started. They replaced some broken brackets under warranty so not a complete waste but not worth the effort to drag it onto the trailer.
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That's crazy they pay less than 200 for a new motor why not just swap it and forget troubleshooting what a waste of time and money.

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All this battery / charger stuff is interesting. That said, I leave batteries on a Battery Tender Jr. or an Optimate Nov. - April, never any issues. Batteries have lasted about 9 seasons and I replaced them as a "just in case" PM item, not because they failed. During the riding seasons I usually leave them plugged into the tender.
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