Toronto police bike accident in Toronto today. Formation riding at fault?

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Surprised nobody posted about this already..unless I missed it? First off, GWS Rider - sounds like he will recover.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/police-officer-motorcycle-involved-collision-1.3765432

A Toronto police officer on a motorcycle was injured and sent to hospital on an emergency run after being involved in a collision Friday morning. It happened on the eastbound lanes of Lake Shore Boulevard West at Spadina Avenue just after 10 a.m.
Const. Clint Stibbe of Toronto police's traffic services unit says a motorcycle escort training exercise involving 20-30 officers was taking place at the time of the collision.
"A southbound vehicle entered the intersection as the eastbound motorcycle escorts were coming through the intersection and one of the eastbound motorcycles was struck," said Stibbe.
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Did anyone see the "training exercise" by chance anywhere in the city? Based on reading this article and a few others, it appears that they were practicing one of these sorts of escorts where they all ride side by side in a very tight formation.

procession-142.jpg


A few weeks ago there was a thread here where group riding was being discussed, and the topic of formation came up. The fact that the OPP (and other police forces) choose to ride this way way left many questioning the level of safety it allows vs a proper staggered formation..

I also wondered out loud if it was even legal since the HTA does state that 2 vehicles cannot occupy the same lane at the same time. We never got that answered before someone dragged the thread into the toilet and it got locked, but anyhow...

I'm left wondering if todays accident was partly a result of this type of formation - the rider who was hit potentially had absolutely nowhere to go in an effort to avoid the collision - can't swerve away from the impending collision without immediately colliding with the bike next to you sharing the same lane. Can't decelerate rapidly without risk of the rider (or a bunch of them) behind you piling into you. Ditto for accelerating. Swerving is obviously the go-to method of collision avoidance, and it simply isn't an option in these sorts of formations.

I just thought it was interesting. If the super tight side by side formation *did* play a part (and again, I'm speculating, but based off the facts that have been released, I don't think I'm completely off base) I'm wondering if it will come up as a topic of discussion in the force. To me, and many others shared the opinion in that other thread, it just seems like a very poor way to ride, ceremonial/escort or not - this is proof that something can happen anytime, unexpectedly, and leaving a rider with absolutely no "out" to the situation has the potential to end very badly.
 
I'd like to know how those short sleeved shirt faired
 
Don't see how formation played a part. You see flashing police lights and you slow down and pull to the right. Blame lays with the car that hit him. It's lucky only 1 was hurt.
 
Benny! said:
Blame lays with the car that hit him.
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Ultimately, yes, but as I mentioned....intentionally riding in such a fashion that leaves you with no possible "out" to an impending accident is a poor way to ride.

Right or wrong, at fault or not at fault...the motorcycle still looses.

Seems to me, accordingly, choosing to ride in this sort of formation actually plays a big part.
 
It's something left over from the 50's & 60's that hasn't gone away yet. Almost everyone rode that way back then. Bicycles still do today. Anyways, since we were not there, we do not know what formation they were in at the time. So you are speculating.
 
If formation was the case 2 would have been injured no? As they are side by side and they were broadsided.
 
cop stuff is one thing, civilians is another, general guidelines are "serve & protect"

another general guideline is don''t mess with cops

PrivatePilot said:
Surprised nobody posted about this already..unless I missed it? First off, GWS Rider - sounds like he will recover.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/police-officer-motorcycle-involved-collision-1.3765432



Did anyone see the "training exercise" by chance anywhere in the city? Based on reading this article and a few others, it appears that they were practicing one of these sorts of escorts where they all ride side by side in a very tight formation.

procession-142.jpg


A few weeks ago there was a thread here where group riding was being discussed, and the topic of formation came up. The fact that the OPP (and other police forces) choose to ride this way way left many questioning the level of safety it allows vs a proper staggered formation..

I also wondered out loud if it was even legal since the HTA does state that 2 vehicles cannot occupy the same lane at the same time. We never got that answered before someone dragged the thread into the toilet and it got locked, but anyhow...

I'm left wondering if todays accident was partly a result of this type of formation - the rider who was hit potentially had absolutely nowhere to go in an effort to avoid the collision - can't swerve away from the impending collision without immediately colliding with the bike next to you sharing the same lane. Can't decelerate rapidly without risk of the rider (or a bunch of them) behind you piling into you. Ditto for accelerating. Swerving is obviously the go-to method of collision avoidance, and it simply isn't an option in these sorts of formations.

I just thought it was interesting. If the super tight side by side formation *did* play a part (and again, I'm speculating, but based off the facts that have been released, I don't think I'm completely off base) I'm wondering if it will come up as a topic of discussion in the force. To me, and many others shared the opinion in that other thread, it just seems like a very poor way to ride, ceremonial/escort or not - this is proof that something can happen anytime, unexpectedly, and leaving a rider with absolutely no "out" to the situation has the potential to end very badly.
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yodude said:
cop stuff is one thing, civilians is another
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Well then, why do they bother wearing a helmet? You know, cops don't need to consider their own personal safety when working. Cause cop stuff.

Sent from my Le Pan TC802A using Tapatalk
 
Iceman said:
Well then, why do they bother wearing a helmet? You know, cops don't need to consider their own personal safety when working. Cause cop stuff.

Sent from my Le Pan TC802A using Tapatalk
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they carry guns (regular ones anyway..) in plain sight, just to start with, you wanna go there then by all means, be my guest
 
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We've got to stop blaming the bikers when a car hits them around here. I doubt the cop even had a chance. In the last three months I have had two vehicles run a stop sign and a red light in front of me, just missing me in my car. People today are being dangerously distracted and don't pay attention to driving.
 
yeah gas guzzlers on the public purse. Most other jurisdictions go with not Harley.

I can just see a Harley patrolling the Auto-bahn

Police_Motorcycles.JPG


or the Brit highways

maxresdefault.jpg
 
We really don't know enough about the collision to speculate on what role formation may have played. Saying that, I'm not sure how anyone can look at the pic in post 1 and think

a) That's safe spacing @ highway speeds, and
b) There's any logical reason to be riding in such a formation, 12 deep no less.
 
DemonPig said:
Outdated bikes, outdated training, outdated mindsets, outdated rituals (who needs motorcycle escorts exactly).

Get those BMWs or Hondas already, and stop parading 200 biker cops whenever some rich dude keels over.
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Isn't the idea of a motorcycle cop outdated? By no means are they necessary. I haven't seen any successful chases where a motorcycle cop took down a runner.

The formation thing is clearly stunting on public roads. This needs to be brought to the attention of those who can make change.

https://youtu.be/RuMknjaXeos


Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
 
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On CTV news they reported that two lead bikes had stopped in the intersection to block it. A cross direction car did not stop and went through the intersection, colliding with a rider. Looks like the bike impacted the passenger side of the car. Older gent in a sedan. I suspect he had a green and didn't see or understand the blocking riders.
 
Formation riding at fault?
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dunno what went down here, i doubt cops are concerned about their formation riding,

otoh, some folks seem preoccupied with it
 
Neil_V said:
We really don't know enough about the collision to speculate on what role formation may have played
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Agreed, I just found it an interesting conversation last time, and the fact that the group was doing some sort of procession/group riding (even if ultimately it was a blocker vs one of the formation riders that was involved in the eventual accident) makes it a relevant topic again. If it HAD been one of the bikes in the group vs a blocker, in that sort of group riding setup it would have been much, much worse - if there was any amount of speed involved and it was one of the first bikes hit the possibility of having 20-30 bikes involved in the resulting crash would be very real. At least in a properly spaced staggered formation every officer would have had an out, but of course it doesn't look as pretty.

MLadin said:
Isn't the idea of a motorcycle cop outdated? By no means are they necessary
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I was thinking about that a few days ago actually when I saw a OPP bike cop on the 401. It seems like a rather impractical vehicle for police work, and the lack of gear they wear just seems to invite even a minor accident (or a major one, given the nature of the work) becoming a big deal through injury. Add in a riding season where the bikes sit a good part of the year and are of zero use to the force, and one is left wondering if it makes any sense at all aside from image. One could lump the mounted units of many forces in the same category actually, and as a horseman I don't say that lightly - an officer on horseback does have practical applications sometimes (crowd control, public relations), but in the grand scheme of things it's not practical most of the time given the expenses surely involved.

For the record, I'm pro police, but I'm also pro reality.
 
Police bikes can serve a purpose, IE rush hour on the 401 a bike cop can outmaneuver a cruiser any day, yes there is a cost associated with bikes sitting idle part of the year. They are primarily a PR tool, these days, (golden helmets team etc), just as the snow birds are an expensive PR tool for the military, or horses are for mounted units.

Many police bikes are years if not decades old due to their relative lack of use they are kept MUCH longer then general patrol vehicles are. Don't believe most forces today are updating their stock and when they do doubt they are still going with the large harleys as in the stock photo 1. TPS "newer" police bikes are much smaller more agile bikes.

As for the original question, did formation riding play a part in the collision? Can't say, the reports say they were doing a "training exercise" for escorts. The formation in the stock photo, (which looks like it is the "performance team") is NOT typical of escorts done in an urban setting, where they are blocking intersections. That type of formation would be for, as the photo suggests, "highway riding" as opposed to close quarters urban riding. So I doubt that "formation riding", (at least of the type shown in the photo), would have played a role. But that would total speculation as we don't know exactly what the exercise was designed to emulate.
 
DemonPig said:
Outdated bikes, outdated training, outdated mindsets, outdated rituals (who needs motorcycle escorts exactly).

Get those BMWs or Hondas already, and stop parading 200 biker cops whenever some rich dude keels over.
Click to expand...

MLadin said:
Isn't the idea of a motorcycle cop outdated? By no means are they necessary. I haven't seen any successful chases where a motorcycle cop took down a runner.

The formation thing is clearly stunting on public roads. This needs to be brought to the attention of those who can make change.

https://youtu.be/RuMknjaXeos


Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

hedo2002 said:
Police bikes can serve a purpose, IE rush hour on the 401 a bike cop can outmaneuver a cruiser any day, yes there is a cost associated with bikes sitting idle part of the year. They are primarily a PR tool, these days, (golden helmets team etc), just as the snow birds are an expensive PR tool for the military, or horses are for mounted units.
Click to expand...


I refuse to let my taxes go to cops joyriding.
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