Emergency braking

I remember when I took the course there was 20ish students. By the end of the weekend 3 failed the final test. (I was amazed they made it there in their car)
The other 17 people "passed" but I think there were only maybe 3-4 of us that were truly ready for the road.

Scary.
 
I my goodness, people in here are talking so much **** about technical braking and so on, when the time comes, all you are going to do is brake as hard as you can, close your eyes and pray...well no time to pray so just say oh ****!

so true... when it happens, it happens quicker than your brain can process.

to the OP, I was going 80 in mid corner when it happened. Looking back, totally my fault. I got way too comfortable with my bike, and the road was still wet (the rain just stopped). I was also in an unfamiliar area. My hands grabbed a fully load of front brake, full clutch in, and that's when I wished I had stomped on the rear to help stabilize the bike. the result was a low side where the the bike went one direction, and me following it somewhat. I was sliding on my chest head first watching my mirror snapped off and the fairing grinding on the asphalt, then physics did its piece when my leather finally gripped and spun me around (now I'm sliding legs first). Both my bike and me slid for quite the distance, through an interaction (luckily it was somewhat remote and no cars were going thru it). Luckily I was wearing full gear, my leather jacket barely showed the marks, my riding gloves held up, and so did my pants. Took me a couple of seconds after I come to a full stop, when my visor started fogging up from my breathing for my brain to wake up.

It all comes down to practice, locking in that muscle memory so should it happen, it's a reflex. My riding group does empty lot practices periodically, we bring our own pilons and lay out similar courses.

Best advice from Griffin and Brian P, best technique is to avoid the situation all together. Slow down when you can't see where you are going. I sure should have.
 
How may of you actually go to empty parking lots and practice slow speed riding, emergency swerving and braking on your own machine. I would bet the number is very low. But when presented a situation where you need it because you don't practice it, you will fail when the situation presents itself!

Actually, this is something I do in the spring and then once or twice later on during the season. Probably not as often as I should. I don't have ABS and I need to practice "panic" or emergency stops, which for me is braking as hard as I can without locking up the wheels, in particular the front. Start at about 30 or 40km and work my way up to 80km. Above 80km my head forces me to back off a little as the consequences of locking up the front wheel of my 800lb bike with hard bags and a top box are a bit grim, not to mention expensive.
 
I remember when I took the course there was 20ish students. By the end of the weekend 3 failed the final test. (I was amazed they made it there in their car)
The other 17 people "passed" but I think there were only maybe 3-4 of us that were truly ready for the road.

Scary.

I couldn't agree more. Looking at some of the students in my class, they should have been forced to ride a bicycle for a season before allowing them to ride motorcycles.
 
Whats the fastest speed you have emergency braked from. Just curious?

Fastest when I had to stop or the alternative would not have been good. I as doing about 225 kph (140 mph) I was on the brakes and tansmission as hard as possible without causing a lock up situation and the tires were howling in protest, but I managed to get it stopped.
 
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Actually, this is something I do in the spring and then once or twice later on during the season. Probably not as often as I should. I don't have ABS and I need to practice "panic" or emergency stops, which for me is braking as hard as I can without locking up the wheels, in particular the front. Start at about 30 or 40km and work my way up to 80km. Above 80km my head forces me to back off a little as the consequences of locking up the front wheel of my 800lb bike with hard bags and a top box are a bit grim, not to mention expensive.


Locking the front wheel usually occurs when you grab a mitful of front brake immediatly instead of applying it and squeezing it harder and harder until you stop. Many times in a panic situation riders will hammer on the front brake and that can be really bad.
 
about 120 and accelerating and came over a little hill and where the hell did that come from parked turning left in the dip in my lane....., realized was not going to make the stop and dropped the braking and went around - lucky was a small car - likely with the ABS I could have stayed on the brake and snuck by but preferred to get the weight off the front end in case I did catch the gravel.

I would personally downshift and use both brakes simultaneously for maximum braking power.
yup

Parking lot practice with BOTH brakes is good.
 
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about 120 and accelerating and came over a little hill and where the hell did that come from parked turning left in the dip in my lane....., realized was not going to make the stop and dropped the braking and went around - lucky was a small car - likely with the ABS I could have stayed on the brake and snuck by but preferred to get the weight off the front end in case I did catch the gravel.


yup

Parking lot practice with BOTH brakes is good.

Depends on the bike and the rider's abilities. A competent rider on a sport bike can fully unload the rear tire so no assistance from the rear brake is available.
 
If you parse your sentence it would appear that you are equating unloading the rear entirely as good braking practice. It may not be what you meant but it is what you wrote. The implication is that the skilled rider doesn't need the rear brake and that's a bad impression to leave with the noobs in my view.
 
If you parse your sentence it would appear that you are equating unloading the rear entirely as good braking practice. It may not be what you meant but it is what you wrote. The implication is that the skilled rider doesn't need the rear brake and that's a bad impression to leave with the noobs in my view.

i am going into my third year in riding this summer. so i am still a noob compared to most on here, i was thought and read an watched online to not use the rears in emergency. and to only concentrate on the getting the best and most efficient braking from the front. since then i i use my rears in slow parking lots and u-turns only.

my idea behind this is , if at high speed my rears will give me 5% stopping power, why should i risk losing the traction and locking up the rear and also i made more sense to put my focus on the front and do the best and get the most
 
Read the link I sent. You have two brakes and two rubber patches - you need both for optimum stopping power. Yes 70% of the stopping is done by the front but it hurts to be 30% short.
That all changes in less than optimum road surfaces where you really need to have both brakes and skills when to use them available.

BRAKING

Your motorcycle has two brakes: one each for the front and rear wheel. Use both of them at the same time. The front brake is more powerful and can provide at least three-quarters of your total stopping power. The front brake is safe to use if you use it properly.

Remember:

* Use both brakes every time you slow or stop. Using both brakes for even "normal" stops will permit you to develop the proper habit or skill of using both brakes properly in an emergency. Squeeze the front brake and press down on the rear. Grabbing at the front brake or jamming down on the rear can cause the brakes to lock, resulting in control problems.
http://www.dmv.ny.gov/mcmanual/ride_within.htm

This is good technique and in controlled situations you can get familiar with stopping with the rear brake only on occasion so you learn to modulate it and maybe carefully what it feels like at or near lockup.... but both all the time is best practice.
No question the front is the main anchor but you need to know how to use both and get used to that and there are times when heavy on the front brake may not be the best approach tho that's usually not in an emergency.

If you have ABS then you can pretty much punch them both hard unless you have a very dodgy surface. That you are getting used to the rear and using it for low speed slow turns is good as that's where a lot of low sides occur. Take the next step and get used to using the rear all the time along with the front. It will make the low speed stuff come easier and help in an emergency giving you the extra braking it's designed for.

Good article here as it's not just the stopping power but weight transfer and stability that comes into play

In a basic stopping situation on the street, you want to use mostly the front brake with some rear. Using the rear brake, even slightly, will help to lower the center of gravity, adding stability to the situation and letting you brake harder in a panic stop. If the situation allows, touching the rear brake a half-second before the front will settle things more. Experiment to find what works best and is comfortable for you to execute with confidence.

Read more: http://www.sportrider.com/riding_tips/146_1001_using_rear_brake/viewall.html#ixzz2IcJSgKZh
It has some detailed practice ideas and explains how the suspension comes into play.

Also taking your bike on dirt roads will give you a very different perspective on braking and is highly recommended.
 
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i am going into my third year in riding this summer. so i am still a noob compared to most on here, i was thought and read an watched online to not use the rears in emergency. and to only concentrate on the getting the best and most efficient braking from the front. since then i i use my rears in slow parking lots and u-turns only.

my idea behind this is , if at high speed my rears will give me 5% stopping power, why should i risk losing the traction and locking up the rear and also i made more sense to put my focus on the front and do the best and get the most

Well said.

But, like most things with motorcycles, your common sense or use of physics will not dissuade anyone from their beliefs. Once someone has some idea lodged in their head, you will not get it out. As an example I've spent way too much time trying to convince some cruiser riders that their front brake won't kill them and that "laying 'er down" isn't a braking technique, it's crashing to avoid crashing.

Unfortunately, some noobs will have gleaned from this thread that they need to balance their braking inputs during emergency braking and wiill either not brake as quickly as they could or will lock their rear with the resulting consequences of that. Oh well...
 
If you parse your sentence it would appear that you are equating unloading the rear entirely as good braking practice. It may not be what you meant but it is what you wrote. The implication is that the skilled rider doesn't need the rear brake and that's a bad impression to leave with the noobs in my view.

Because physics?

Summation of moments around the bike and rider's center of mass?

Thanks.. I'll show myself out.
 
i am going into my third year in riding this summer. so i am still a noob compared to most on here, i was thought and read an watched online to not use the rears in emergency. and to only concentrate on the getting the best and most efficient braking from the front. since then i i use my rears in slow parking lots and u-turns only.

my idea behind this is , if at high speed my rears will give me 5% stopping power, why should i risk losing the traction and locking up the rear
and also i made more sense to put my focus on the front and do the best and get the most

This right here. New riders don't have the ability/practice to emergency stop with both brakes. Thus, I think it'd be best for them (until they practice e-stopping with both) to use only the front in an emergency stop, as to not lose traction on the rear (making it worse).

However, advanced riders should be using both brakes (as they know how to not lock the rear up emergency braking.)

Simple physics will dictate that using both brakes will stop you faster.
 
I didn't get a chance to read every comment here but it's an interesting thread with some great discussion. I wrote an article on the topic of Emergency Braking for Motorcycle Mojo Magazine, I've copied and pasted it below and I hope it provides some further insight

Stopping Fast!

I’ve seen it happen on more than one occasion, motorcyclists attempting to make an emergency stop making all sorts of detrimental errors. I’ve seen them lock up the rear tire severely and end up sliding across the pavement in an avoidable low side. I’ve seen them lock up the front tire, wobble dramatically from side to side and end up sliding across the pavement. I’ve seen people freeze, barely get on the brakes at all, and end up hitting the very thing they were trying to avoid. I’ve even witnessed a rider grab the front brake so hard and for so long that he rose up into a massive stoppie with the bike continuing to gain altitude until it was flipping over on top of him.

All of these errors are avoidable and with a little bit of rider education and training, emergency braking can become a well-learned and well-executed skill. It’s one of the things we coach at the California Superbike School during the two-day camp program, and something I’ve worked on with students in other rider training programs that I’ve been a part of.

Lets talk first about locking up the rear tire. It’s easy to do. It doesn’t take much pressure on the lever to get it to lock up and in most cases can cause unnecessary problems. With a locked up rear tire you lose valuable traction and the back end has a tendency to fish tail, or skid violently to one side or the other. Less pressure on the rear will help to prevent this from happening, and if you do lock it up, just let off the pressure gently until it is no longer locked. Don’t slam it on, and don’t chop it off.

I personally don’t use the rear brake at all, except if I happen to run off the track or off the road and end up in gravel or dirt, then I will use the rear brake to help me slow down as a grab on the front brake will surely send me face first into the ground. On a sportbike, you can get 100% of your braking done with the front, and even on bigger and heavier bikes like cruisers or Harley’s most of the braking can be done with the front only.

I did a series of braking exercises with several riders on various models and brands of bikes. First, their speed and stopping distance was measured with them using a combo of both front and rear brakes, and then with them just using their front. To the surprise of many of the riders, the stopping distance and execution was better when they used the front brake only. I’m not saying that you have to do this, or that you shouldn’t use the rear brake at all, only that it is possible and can possibly provide better results. Try it.

Most riders have experienced to some degree the feeling of locking up the rear tire and are somewhat comfortable with it. Locking up the front wheel on a motorcycle however is much more elusive and therefore when it does happen can be one of the most terrifying parts of riding.

At the California Superbike School we have a bizarre looking motorcycle in the fleet of specialized training bikes, a Kawasaki Ninja 650R that has long yellow poles sticking out of the sides. The poles have small skateboard wheels on the ends of them and are designed to act a little bit like training wheels. They prevent the bike from tipping over, and crashing in a low-side and therefore provide extra confidence for students that are learning about emergency braking. The idea behind the Panic Brake Trainer, designed by Keith Code, is to allow students to experience a fully locked front wheel and then be trained to save it.

The exercise is to have the students get the bike into second gear, approximately 50km/hour and have them get on the front brake as if they were trying to avoid hitting something. From there we coach them on progressively pulling the front brake lever until the front wheel locks. When the front locks it often makes a loud chattering noise or skidding noise and sometimes a puff of smoke rises off the wheel. The tendency, when this happens to the rider, is to either let off the brakes completely which most often results in hitting the thing they were trying to avoid, or to keep the same amount of pressure on the brake lever, which continues the front wheel skid and usually results in a low side crash. Most have never felt this sensation before so they panic and don’t know what to do.

When our students finally lock up the front we coach them to come out of the brake a little bit, nice and gently, to the point where the front is no longer locked. This way, they continue to come to a stop but will no longer be testing traction with a locked front wheel. Most students find this exercise very valuable for two distinct reasons. One, they get to see how much pressure it takes on the lever to get the front to lock up, and two, they get to practice locking up the front and then saving it, without fear of crashing the bike. Most are surprised by just how much front brake they can apply without actually locking up the front tire.

Other things that will help make braking smooth and problem free include lever squeezing technique and body position on the bike. I usually recommend using two fingers on the front brake lever and pulling with smooth and progressive pressure. Avoid snatching the front brake or squeezing hard and fast at the end of braking. Also, avoid having super stiff or straight arms as you will transfer that pressure into the handlebars and can initiate a wobbling back and fourth that could turn into a tank slapper. Pinching the tank with your knees will help to keep the weight off your arms, and will also keep your body weight from sliding forward and putting too much weight on the front tire.

When you do find yourself in a situation of having to emergency brake, try to avoid target fixing on the object that you are trying not to hit. Focus on the braking and on seeing the available space around you that you could utilize. If you are able to brake safely and come to a complete stop then do so, if you think you are not able to brake hard enough to avoid the situation then you could brake hard to scrub off speed, release the brake completely and then quick steer around the problem. Don’t try to steer the bike with any amount of brake on.

Lastly, even though stoppies look cool, having the rear wheel in the air is not the safest way to come to a stop. A lot of people accidentally end up with the rear wheel lifting off the ground because they squeezed the brake lever harder at the end of their braking, almost like a little stab, and they let their entire body weight slide into the tank which puts too much weight forward, lightens the rear and results in a reverse wheelie. Squeezing the tank, relaxing the arms and pulling the brake in smoothly and evenly will help prevent this from happening.

This is one riding skill that can be practiced in a parking lot or empty side street. Start slowly and work on squeezing the brake lever smoothly and consistently and come to a complete stop. Then try to pull the lever a little harder and stop a little quicker. It pays to have at least practiced this skill a few times so that if you do suddenly find yourself in an emergency braking situation, you are better able to handle it.

Ride Safe,

Misti Hurst
Columnist: Motorcycle Mojo Magazine
 
Read the link I sent.

Simply put, all those links are wrong. The simple fact is that the fastest way to come to a stop when there is enough grip to perform a stoppie, is with 0% rear brake.

Since this represents the environment sport bikes and most tourers find themselves in 90% of the time, that should be the simplified message that is reinforced to all new riders, if we're going to simplify anything. Then riders only have to remember that in low grip or heavily loaded situations, the rear brake should be used softly. Braking in a turn or emergency avoidance manoeuvers are something else entirely.
 
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Exactly the rear brake on a sport bike has 0% braking power In a straight line on a clean surface no extra can be gained in this type of stop from using the rear if the front is being used effectively.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
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