Fire Department bills me for nothing

[Griffin]

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This may be true for getting charged for food you didn't order, but not that appropriate for emergency services.

The amount of complaining around here is amazing. people post about how they crash and no one tries to help them as they are bleeding and trying to get their bike off the road, and other people complain because people stopped to call 911 for them. Seriously...

Emergency services are not ordered in the way that food is provided from the Chinese restaurant. They are provided by the community to the community and paid for by the community so that when the community is in need of them, they are available.

Charging for responding to MVC's is often done because the presumption by the FD and the municipality is that the insurance company will pay and therefore there is "no cost" to the residents. Its a mistaken premise.

The charges originated from the fact that the Province owns the highways but pays nothing for the emergency response by FD's to the highways. A system was set up in the '70's to have MTO pay FD's for MVC's on the highways. Some FD's figured it was a cash cow and could be extended to all MVC;s and insurance companies tend to pay with no complaint. It's when insurance isn't footing the bill that people complain. Most often, if they complain to the FD the bill will be dropped.

Most MVC's the victim did not request any emergency response. They virtually never request Fire to respond but Fire is tiered anyway. There's no bloody way I'm paying for a truck or two or three, at $410 an hour (current MTO rate) because some passerby phoned 911. Nor should you. And by the way, the trucks cost well upwards of $.5mil. And, interestingly, if it is not a volunteer department, the only actual cost to the municipality is diesel fuel and wear and tear on the trucks. The salary and infrastructure costs which account for 98% of the department budget are already covered whether they turn a wheel or not.

Interestingly, the FD has no authority to gather information from the driver in order to bill them. The police are prohibited from sharing information gathered by them under the HTA with the FD although many of them do it anyway. So, if you are getting billed, its with the use of information which was not gathered with any legal authority or shared in violation or provincial law.

 

[hondacbrf3]

Ummm ok for most of you that don't know fire runs this scam all the time the ask for an op number and then send you the bill. I have seen opp refuse them the number several times when all they do is show up an cause a mess. Fire is always the last cause they are lost half the times and when they do make it they just want to demolish **** cut doors battery cables. People call tow truck drivers a rip offbwe charge 236 to tow a car and these guys charge 1000 to block a lane.

 

[Griffin]

Ummm ok for most of you that don't know fire runs this scam all the time the ask for an op number and then send you the bill. I have seen opp refuse them the number several times when all they do is show up an cause a mess. Fire is always the last cause they are lost half the times and when they do make it they just want to demolish **** cut doors battery cables. People call tow truck drivers a rip offbwe charge 236 to tow a car and these guys charge 1000 to block a lane.

Fire is last on scene only when the dispatchers at 911 or EMS screw up the call. They don't cause a mess, they cut people out of cars, unless people are too stupid to wear a seatbelt in which case they collect the bits from the ditch and put it into the plastic bags that the paramedics hold for them. I have no beef at all with fire responding to MVC's. They are typically well trained and equipped and do a competent, dirty and unpleasant job pulling people out of situations that often their own stupidity put them into.

I have a beef with billing the victim for the service. That's what taxes are for. Unless we want to go back to the days where you only got an emergency response if you were able to pay for it. Which I certainly don't want to do.

 

[OpenGambit]

I have a beef with billing the victim for the service. That's what taxes are for.

again, this is the premise I don't agree with, we have tons of user fees for lots of "public" services. Maybe fire should not be one of them, but just simply saying " we pay taxes" is just not that convincing. Certainly doesn't explain why this charge is somehow more unconscionable than other similar charges.

 

[psycho44]

whatever the reason is for fire departments to bill out of towners and whether we think it is right or not

I just think it's ridiculous what they charge and it sounds like a roll of a dice. You never know what number comes up whether $1000 or $5000 it's still some ridiculously high number and I think that's what outrages most people.

So next time you're an out of towner and you see them grabbing their liquid absorbent tell them you'll run to Walmart and they can use the kitty litter.

 

[silverbullet132]

At an accident my uncle had 3 years ago, 2 fire trucks showed up (this was around Newmarket on Hwy 400). They could have left nearly immediately, but the OPP officer asked them to stay. That resulted in us getting a $1600 bill. Was quite a surprise.

 

[imnothng]

At an accident my uncle had 3 years ago, 2 fire trucks showed up (this was around Newmarket on Hwy 400). They could have left nearly immediately, but the OPP officer asked them to stay. That resulted in us getting a $1600 bill. Was quite a surprise.

How did they get your information?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

... and so it begins!

Well let's be honest here; it is more than a little silly and probably results in not insignificant paperwork costs. Imagine how many people in Toronto who are in collisions, for example, aren't residents of the city.

 

[vrus]

this should be something insurance covers

 

[Emefef]

...Certainly doesn't explain why this charge is somehow more unconscionable than other similar charges.

I think it's because the person being billed doesn't really have choice. Despite our disagreement about consumption taxes (although my specific point was that you can budget for that, and choose which products to buy, thereby avoiding higher taxes on tobacco and alcohol - I'm with you on the HST), I still don't think it's the same. The taxes paid on a lower income or the taxes paid on the items purchased on a tight budget will be less. The fees paid for the FD to respond are in no way related to the person's income or budget. We all pay taxes to support these services. Some pay more than others. THAT is part of our social responsibility and THAT is life in a democracy. Billing a single mother scraping by on a low salary because she lives in Mississauga and is involved in a MVC in Brampton would be outrageous (example only, no intended reference to the OP).
We do pay fees for a lot of things. Most are justified. This one isn't.
I wonder if the tourists that were shot in the Eaton Center were billed by TFS? I would suggest not.

 

[Emefef]

this should be something insurance covers

It probably does, there have been posts that suggest or state that. In this case however, the OP said the services weren't needed.
If the insured person does not request or use the service and does not file a claim, should there be a claim on their policy?
If I choose not to file a claim for $700 in broken bits because I have a $500 deductible anyway, I'm doing that to avoid a claim on my policy. If the FD can then get my information and file a claim, how is that fair?

 

[knucklesound]

Do the FD charge the family if someone dies?
That would be really, really horrible.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

It probably does, there have been posts that suggest or state that. In this case however, the OP said the services weren't needed.
If the insured person does not request or use the service and does not file a claim, should there be a claim on their policy?
If I choose not to file a claim for $700 in broken bits because I have a $500 deductible anyway, I'm doing that to avoid a claim on my policy. If the FD can then get my information and file a claim, how is that fair?

It does. The only time that I've seen a charge for this was when I was taken out by another rider, in Caledon, in 1998. He was billed $400.00 for two fire trucks, for 2 hours each, because he chose not to go through insurance for his damage.

 

[meme]

I just forwarded the bill to State Farm last summer - prob solved

 

[OpenGambit]

I think it's because the person being billed doesn't really have choice. Despite our disagreement about consumption taxes (although my specific point was that you can budget for that, and choose which products to buy, thereby avoiding higher taxes on tobacco and alcohol - I'm with you on the HST), I still don't think it's the same. The taxes paid on a lower income or the taxes paid on the items purchased on a tight budget will be less. The fees paid for the FD to respond are in no way related to the person's income or budget. We all pay taxes to support these services. Some pay more than others. THAT is part of our social responsibility and THAT is life in a democracy. Billing a single mother scraping by on a low salary because she lives in Mississauga and is involved in a MVC in Brampton would be outrageous (example only, no intended reference to the OP).
We do pay fees for a lot of things. Most are justified. This one isn't.
I wonder if the tourists that were shot in the Eaton Center were billed by TFS? I would suggest not.

and I am saying that we don't have a choice when it comes to paying for a gazillion other things, the fact that this bill comes from a fire department instead of a doctor's office or the MVA or the CRA is really the only distinction, and in my view, not a very pertinent one.

Fire departments should be erroring on the side of caution in any event when it comes to accidents. If they did it the other way around, the uproar would be insanity.

 

[imnothng]

@opengambit. So you're saying it's ok for me to have to forfeit two weeks pay because SOMEBODY else called 911?

 

[OpenGambit]

@opengambit. So you're saying it's ok for me to have to forfeit two weeks pay because SOMEBODY else called 911?

Yes, I am saying thats ok.

I also forfeit much more than two weeks pay because politicians like to spend billions of dollars on ****. What your point really? At least someone calling 911 for you actually has your best interests at heart.

are you saying that the fire department shouldn't show up until you give them permission to?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Yes, I am saying thats ok.

I also forfeit much more than two weeks pay because politicians like to spend billions of dollars on ****. What your point really? At least someone calling 911 for you actually has your best interests at heart.

are you saying that the fire department shouldn't show up until you give them permission to?

I think the main point here is that no one should have to pay, whether or not someone else called 911, precisely because politicians have spend millions on **** JUST LIKE THAT. It's paid for. Minutia of billing based on residency is stupid.

 

[infernobuster]

everyone in this thread is being double billed now.

thankyoucomeagain.

lollercoasterbbq

 

[Baggsy]

Most user fees aren't in the thousands of dollars and unexpected.

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