"I do not disagree" Thank you.
Petition to ban commercial vehicles from US129 (Deals Gap)
- Thread starter S500K
- Start date
With what frequency would a commercial vehicle need to drive that route? Your "example" is unrealistic. Your origin and destination are.. what? speed limit signs? they're not towns or.. anything??
A lot of the commercial vehicles that run regular routes in that area are shorter straight trucks, below 30 feet, which are much more suited to those roads. With what frequency would a commercial shipment need to drive that route AND be unable to use a smaller truck?
This is a bit more realistic:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?saddr=W+...;FYhGGwIdHBoB-w&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=11&t=h&z=10
Google says that would take 1 hour and 9 minutes but i would think in a big truck that would be closer to 2 hours, perhaps more. Just the Dragon itself plus the few miles on each end would take more than an hour.
Alternative #1. 2h41m
http://maps.google.ca/maps?saddr=W+...wIdHBoB-w&mra=dpe&mrsp=2&sz=9&via=1,2&t=h&z=9
Alternative #2: 3h11m
http://maps.google.ca/maps?saddr=W+...GwIdHBoB-w&mra=dvme&mrsp=1&sz=9&via=1&t=h&z=9
It looks like Alternate #1 would be my choice.
I tend to disagree with this statement. It's the rally cry for far too many laws abridging rights. For example it's the sort of thing stated by Tim Mulcahy when he pushed for a law limiting all drivers under a certain age from having any alcohol in their systems, regardless of their license status, because his son and a few of his friends got completely plastered and drove into a river. The actions of one do not necessarily dictate that action must be taken.
In this case, however, it's not the only pressing reason for transport traffic to be restricted from using this road. It's the punctuation, as it were, for why they should have been restricted from using this road long ago. There have been collisions. There have been a huge number of times that the highway has been completely closed, due to a truck getting stuck.
I don't say this to minimize Woodward's death. Almost any death is a tragedy and, from all accounts, this appears to have been one. It didn't have to be if reasonable measures had been taken previously, to limit traffic by a class of vehicle that cannot use this highway in a safe manner.
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Shaman
Well-known member
Oh really? Do you know Ron and Nancy, personally? Like I do? Shared beer with them and hung out in their kitchen?
I'll hand you this... when you start digging a hole, you don't stop. Ever.
(for those not in the know, Ron & Nancy operate several rental houses, a souvenir shop and the Tail of the Dragon website)
By the way... from the web site, currently front and center:
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Yes, operating rental houses and business catering to those who come to "test" themselves on the US129. Of course they have would a personal business-related stake in getting rid of trucks completely. What better way to help improve the potential for more motorcycle rider business than by pushing for removal of trucks that might slow riders and "diminish" their riding experience on the US129 "test track". Maybe they can work to get rid of cars and trucks pulling trailers when the trucks are gone.
Like I said, their own web site before this tells the real story:
What's that? Speed? Out-riding yourself and/or the road?
What a concept! Keep speeds reasonable! Stay alert! Stay alive!
The road is essentially a tourist area, as much as the highway through Smokey Mountain National Park is (and transports are not allowed on that road either).
When they had a rock slide last year that blocked US129 for a couple months, several business in that area went out of business -- one a large bbq "shack", a local favourite. That's how much the surrounding rural area relies on the tourist traffic there. The hospitality of the locals is heartwarming. The courtesy seen on the single lane road jaw dropping. Their department of transportation or road works just recently added a number of asphalt shoulder areas where people can safely pull off for a moment and allow faster traffic by. This was done purely for the pleasure and safety of tourists on the road.
And it's not a personal racetrack for sport bikes to push limits. Cruisers, scooters, sports cars and even cyclists use it for pure riding pleasure, which is something we all do. People crash on it (cars and cruisers, not just sportbikes), yes, but it's not due to outright speed, it is because it is so tight and technical. Crashes are for the most part minor, due to the relatively slow speeds involved. The Dragon is quite a blast at slower speeds too. In fact, it seems that there are far more cruisers on it than sportbikes.
Turbo, you really have to see it. The distortion of perspective in the photos and videos really do not do it justice. It really is much tighter and narrower in real life. At 20-30mph, my heart was in my throat the first time I was on it.
The road itself was not designed with highway safety standards in mind. It literally was carved into the side of the mountain/hill and follows the natural contours of the mountain/hill itself. The mountain and the heavy forest obscures visibility around almost all of the Dragon's hairpin corners. Vehicles are absolutely not allowed to cross over the double yellow there and so people just do not expect to see an oncoming vehicle in their own lane. As transports cannot stay within their own lane while on US129, it is a no-brainer that they should be banned from it.
When they had a rock slide last year that blocked US129 for a couple months, several business in that area went out of business -- one a large bbq "shack", a local favourite. That's how much the surrounding rural area relies on the tourist traffic there. The hospitality of the locals is heartwarming. The courtesy seen on the single lane road jaw dropping. Their department of transportation or road works just recently added a number of asphalt shoulder areas where people can safely pull off for a moment and allow faster traffic by. This was done purely for the pleasure and safety of tourists on the road.
And it's not a personal racetrack for sport bikes to push limits. Cruisers, scooters, sports cars and even cyclists use it for pure riding pleasure, which is something we all do. People crash on it (cars and cruisers, not just sportbikes), yes, but it's not due to outright speed, it is because it is so tight and technical. Crashes are for the most part minor, due to the relatively slow speeds involved. The Dragon is quite a blast at slower speeds too. In fact, it seems that there are far more cruisers on it than sportbikes.
Turbo, you really have to see it. The distortion of perspective in the photos and videos really do not do it justice. It really is much tighter and narrower in real life. At 20-30mph, my heart was in my throat the first time I was on it.
The road itself was not designed with highway safety standards in mind. It literally was carved into the side of the mountain/hill and follows the natural contours of the mountain/hill itself. The mountain and the heavy forest obscures visibility around almost all of the Dragon's hairpin corners. Vehicles are absolutely not allowed to cross over the double yellow there and so people just do not expect to see an oncoming vehicle in their own lane. As transports cannot stay within their own lane while on US129, it is a no-brainer that they should be banned from it.
Turbo: the area is packed weekend and weekday with motorcycle and cage tourist traffic. Banning transport trucks would make no difference on the draw to the area.
The area is HEAVILY patrolled by the Blount County Sheriff's department which vigorously enforces the 30 mph limit on the Dragon with radar. The speed limit was reduced from 50 to 30 mph for safety reasons. Everyone acknowledges that the road is risky, but everyone acknowledges that it is a tourist draw and a revenue generator, including the the county.
The area is HEAVILY patrolled by the Blount County Sheriff's department which vigorously enforces the 30 mph limit on the Dragon with radar. The speed limit was reduced from 50 to 30 mph for safety reasons. Everyone acknowledges that the road is risky, but everyone acknowledges that it is a tourist draw and a revenue generator, including the the county.
Shaman
Well-known member
Yep. Along with the over-presence of the THP, they couldn't make ends meet.
They also added some shoulder berms at Guardrail cliff (where I crashed) and at least one other area, to give a rider a small amount of extra protection. Of course, if you hit them hard, they turn into ramps................
It is for Moody and his wife Sue. Never seen faster riding in my life. But that's another story...
I've seen far more cruisers crash on the Dragon than anything else. Why? Floorboards deck out... riders have no real experience beyond riding to the coffee shop... car tire on the rear... etc. They tend to get hurt more than the sportbike crowd too, because a 900lb+ bike lying on you tends to be discomforting.
Try what a couple of us do... ride 40mph and NEVER touch the brakes.
[video=vimeo;11809687]http://www.vimeo.com/11809687[/video]
It's a goat path with pavement on it.
My heart flutters and a smile breaks out on my face every time i see that map 
Not if it's hidden around a rock outcrop around 90° corner.
Do you think a trucker really wants to drive this? Do you think he/she'd mind going 10 miles down to the next road? Think this would save them time or be good for their brakes, clutch, tires, ...?
CrusinGrrl: a LOT of those corners are hairpins. They're also banked. the Dragon is not a flat piece of road. The asphalt is pristine and the road undulates over hill and vale....
>sigh<
just a taste:
http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=04RK01CB000016&po=16&pc=23
also, "Gravity Cavity" has to been seen and experienced. How transport trucks even make it through that spot boggles the mind
>sigh<
just a taste:
http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=04RK01CB000016&po=16&pc=23
also, "Gravity Cavity" has to been seen and experienced. How transport trucks even make it through that spot boggles the mind
My point exactly, from the pictures I've seen and the map posted above it looks like semi trucks (and other large vehicles) do not have the ability to traverse this road with out some serious luck and even then they're likely to damage the road and possibly the truck. It's a lot of stress to put some one through driving it when they make their living driving.
Apples and oranges.
If Jamie's crash happened how he described it (which i doubt to begin with) then it was operator error on the SUV driver's part that lead to the crash.
It is physically impossible for a big truck to stay in its lane through nearly every corner on The Dragon, it is not operator error. No amount of driver attentiveness or skill can change that, it is simple physics. Neither of your arguments are germane to what's being discussed in this thread. Distracted drivers wandering into the oncoming lane is not the root cause of why people want to ban large trucks from The Dragon. It's physics. The only thing that can prevent that (contrary to what you wrote.. the distracted driver) is changing the laws of physics. Impractical.
Given that trucks would very seldomly need to travel through that section of road I believe that banning vehicles over a certain length is a prudent idea.
ddusseld
Well-known member
Wow. Wow. Wow.
Do you have any basis or facts to support anything you have said in this post? This just might be one of the most misinformed posts I've had the pleasure of reading on this board.
There is no way/no how that a transport truck can make it through Deals Gap without crossing the center line and blocking both lanes of traffic. It does not matter how good the driver is or how much geometry they have studied.
Trucks block the road everyday and everyday riders or drivers take evasive action to avoid them. It is testament to the basic skills of the riders/drivers that people are not mowed down wholesale. I have been there many times and I have yet to spend a week there without having to avoid a transport truck at some point.
Do you have any basis or facts to support anything you have said in this post? This just might be one of the most misinformed posts I've had the pleasure of reading on this board.
There is no way/no how that a transport truck can make it through Deals Gap without crossing the center line and blocking both lanes of traffic. It does not matter how good the driver is or how much geometry they have studied.
Trucks block the road everyday and everyday riders or drivers take evasive action to avoid them. It is testament to the basic skills of the riders/drivers that people are not mowed down wholesale. I have been there many times and I have yet to spend a week there without having to avoid a transport truck at some point.
Wow. 12 pages and there are people actually *debating* whether large transports should be allowed on the Dragon? Geez, there are bylaws all over the GTA restricting trailers based on roads far more accomodating. It seems like a no-brainer to me.
