How to proceed with Suzuki of Newmarket? any suggestions? (LONG)

[Devlin]

On Nov.6th, 2006 I purchased, by phone, a new 2006 GSX-R1000 (VIN JS1GT76A262104852) from Suzuki of Newmarket with a $1000 deposit to salesperson Mr. Michael Robotham. Pick up date is March 31st, 2007. Mr. Robotham assured me that the bike would be placed in storage. On December 9th, 2006 I visited the dealership to meet Mr. Robotham. He was busy, but I spoke with "Blake" the Customer Service Manager and told him that the bike on their showroom floor matched the VIN number of the bike that was sold to me and that it was supposed to be in storage. He said it was an oversight and that he would make sure the bike went into storage. On Jan.6th, 2007 I attended the "North American International Motorcycle Show" in Toronto and visited the "Suzuki of Newmarket" booth and was shocked to see my bike on display with many people climbing on and off the machine. I went to my car to confirm my documentation of the VIN and get my digital camera. I returned to the bike and took pictures of it and a close-up of the VIN. I then spoke with owner Mr. Sam Agha and express my extreme disappointment. We spoke respectfully for 10-15 minutes. He said that he was getting 8-10 new 2006 GSX-R1000's he’d purchased nationally and that he would provide me with a new one in the crate in red/black and would call me Jan.15th to confirm. Failing this, he would refund my money, but only then. I indicated that I was not comfortable doing any more business with his dealership and wished to have my deposit back. He refused and said that he would get me a new bike in crate. I said that if he did not refund my deposit that I did not have much choice in the matter and would have to agree to his terms. I have of course been thinking much about this since I left the show and do not want to proceed out of a matter of principal.

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The Customer Service Manager called me that Monday and I repeated my request for a refund of my deposit. He said he would talk to the owner. He called the next day and said my request was denied.
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I then sent them this email and got the reply that follows;

Attn:
Blake Johnston
Customer Service Manager
Suzuki of Newmarket
(1552799 ONTARIO INC)

Dear Mr. Johnston,

I understand from our telephone conversation on January 9th, 2007 that Mr. Sam Agha the president of Suzuki of Newmarket does not wish to return my deposit and that it is his hope to hold me to a contract (Vehicle Purchase Agreement) with Suzuki of Newmarket, the very same contract which your company has broke by not storing the motorcycle as expected and agreed upon and by using the same motorcycle as an ongoing display model in both your showroom (as photographed on Dec.9th, 2006) and at the very busy January 5-6-7th North American International Motorcycle Supershow 2007 at the Toronto International Center (as photographed Jan. 6, 2007).

I have filed a complaint with OMVIC in an effort to recover my deposit.

As previously requested during both my January 6th conversation with Mr. Agha and my January 8th conversation with yourself, I once again make a request for the return of my deposit so we can bring this matter to a close.

Sincerely,
Paul Devlin

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PAUL THANK YOU FOR YOUR E-MAIL. I HAVE REVIEWED YOUR E-MAIL WITH SAM AND SAM HAS ADVISED ME OF YOUR DISCUSSION WITH HIM AT THE SHOW. YOU ADVISED SAM THAT YOU UNDERSTAND YOU WERE BEING DIFFICULT AND EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE BIKE YOU PURCHACED SAM AGREED AS A GOODWILL GESTURE TO BRING YOU IN ANOTHER ONE. YOU GAVE SAM ONE WEEK TO SUPPLY ANOTHER AND WITHIN 72 HOURS WE HAD YOU ANOTHER BIKE . AT THIS POINT OF TIME SAM EXPECTS YOU TO TAKE ONE OR THE OTHER. PLEASE SUPPLY US WITH A PICKUP DATE . THANK YOU … BLAKE

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So I replied most sincerely with the following;

Mr. Blake Johnston,

Please stop shouting at me. You may wish to read this good article called "A Beginner's Guide to Effective Emails" at http://webfoot.com/advice/email.intonation.html (http://webfoot.com/advice/email.intonation.html)


Please be advised that if you do not return my deposit, and if my OMVIC complaint against Suzuki of Newmarket does not produce satisfactory results, then I will be left with no choice but to sue in Small Claims Court for my $1000 plus additional expenses.

Sincerely,
Paul Devlin
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Thanks for reading, does anyone have suggestions on how to get my deposit back?

[Q-ball]

WOW.... I don't know what to say to that in regards to advise. Thats not cool that they had you bike on the showroom floor and expecially at the show.

[mat2312]

Ya I would be VERY ****** off as well. Regardless of whether or not people 'did' anything to the bike, if you are buying a new bike then you are buying a NEW bike, not a floor model.


This would definitely make me shy away from business with Suzuki of Newmarket, they should refund your $1000 as a gesture of good business practices.

[Biggsy]

(0_0)

Wow, that is awful. Lied to, and worse yet they let everyone have a turn riding your baby.

I don't think you should brought up 'small claims court' or OMVIC right off the bat. The 'SHOUTING' thing while entertaining, does little for your cause.

If I were you, a letter (physical letter, mailed) to Suzuki Canada cc'ing Sam of Suzuki of Newmarket would be the best approach. Phone first, to get the name of someone to actually adress it to (don't send to "CUSTOMER RELATIONS" - but instead get the VP of customer care and send it to him personally). Now, if you REALLY want to get fancy smancy, the same letter cc'd to Suzuki of Japan (translated of course) might light a fire under their ***.

I heard story of someone with a Honda doing this, they got a japanese student to translate the letter for them (on shoddy car repairs), used a lot of terms like "disrepectful" it got Honda's attention.

Suzuki sends out letters to new owners (I don't have mine handy) but it is signed vp of somone or other VP suzuki canada. HE would be the person to send complaints like this too. I'll have a look for one of my letters (of if anyone else on gtam has the letter...)

Cheap plug for Cycleworld East / Carl (who now works at GP bikes?)- immediatly after I signed on the bottom line. Carl put the 'do not touch SOLD' sign on my bike and that afternoon wheeled it into the back.

[Howard2k]

That's terrible. How did you pay the original $1,000? Was it on a credit card? If so you could pursue that angle.


That's unreal, so slack.

[Car2Slo]

I'll start by saying I understand what you're feeling.

Now, my suggestion is make a decision to take the new bike in the crate and give SofN a date for pickup. Mention to them you have a serious phobia of people sitting on your bike, spreading germs and possibly dropping the bike and bending something mildly without your knowledge. If you push them hard for you're refund I suspect you'll see neither the bike nor your $1000 deposit. Good luck taking them and wasting your time in court.

Once you have the new bike, take your business else where, for now don't risk losing everything.

[thumpit]

Condensed, more detailed version is below.

- to ensure your success in court, you'll need the VIN # and storage agreement written on all copies of the contract. If not, (the storage agreement part) and it is unlikely by the sounds of things, the right judge may still side with you if the VIN is on it, and you have the next item......

- a background reference subject, in the pic you took of the VIN at the show that would date it and place it.

- if you don't have this detail, you could likely still get a pic in their showrm, because they are likely STILL displaying the bike publically. Go just prior to a 6pm television broadcast that shows the date and time prior to their news coverage on intros, and use a small handheld TV in the backgrd of the VIN pic. Take a buddy to sidetrack them while you get it as they won't be impressed if they figure out what you're up to, ha ha.

- pics of scuff marks, would help, but only if they can be associated with that bike and that VIN (hard to do)

Paul, because Sam and Blake were intending to sell you that bike (which has been subjected to being poked, prodded, yanked, scuffed and just generally really gone over with less than sensitive hands, *****, ankles, boot spurs, studs, sweat and jewellery, with the same VIN as on your contract, and because had you not noticed the identical bike in the showroom and a major NA Bike Show, with incriminating pics of the VIN (hope you have a distinguishable subject in the backgrd that can place the bike at the show) they were willing to sell you that same bike unbeknownst to you, they have in effect broken the contract and you should be able to prove this in a small claims court. The VIN pic at the show with crucial background reference is a must. And likely the storage agreement should be written on your contract. If not, these are potential outs for the dlrship. But their attitude of suggesting that because they have been willling to source you another 'new' bike, doesn't cut it. The have broken the trust. The fact that they were going to try to pull the wool over your eyes, and worse, attempt to call your bluff on this by Blakes poor-excuse-of-a-CR-letter, giving you an ultimatum that only satisfys themselves, is inexcusable and contrary to what anyone would consider acceptable business practice in NA.

I don't know you personally nor do likely a few thousand potential readers of your post, so there-in lies a potential snag for slagging/exposing their alleged dishonest butts. Chances are, you are on the level and everything has happened exactly as you describe. However, if you have/had a personal axe to grind with this particular dealership, this would be a great tool to disrupt any pending deals that other readers might have or about to make in the near future and would be a great way to retaliate as the 'little guy'. Sometimes the little guy has limited means of fighting back.
So, if you can prove your case to the masses, then I'd say S of Nwmkt has made a poor call here by jerking you around. The best thing they could do at this point is refund your deposit, with interest. And even if they do, I'd say that permanent reputation damage has still been done to them by readers/riders who will side with you as a fellow biker, out of faith and on principle. Not everyone will try to substantiate your claims here.

What everyone should do, if they or their friends are in the mkt for a new 06 Gix1000, should make note of that VIN #. There is strength in numbers and if every single prospective customer goes up to the bike, 3/4 of the way through a prospective deal, and makes note of the VIN in front of......Sam, would be the best, lol and Blake, second best.......and say, "oh, wait a minute, I know about this bike, I recognise the VIN. My offer just dropped a grand." And if the next customer did the same....and the next, and the next, ha ha.

[gldwngr]

- if you don't have this detail, you could likely still get a pic in their showrm, because they are likely STILL displaying the bike publically. Go just prior to a 6pm television broadcast that shows the date and time prior to their news coverage on intros, and use a small handheld TV in the backgrd of the VIN pic. Take a buddy to sidetrack them while you get it as they won't be impressed if they figure out what you're up to, ha ha.

Yeah, keep what you're doing a secret from them until after the deed is done, right?

Um, you don't suppose SoN staff might read these forums, do you? Especially seeing how their name is emblazoned in the thread title....

[Grimmy]

I think that what you have done is ok and enforceable.

As a dealer, once a vehicle is sold (has a deposit on it - regardless of a set delivery date or not) the dealer is obligated to remove the vehicle from its display (or demo if applicable) and then stored.

By continuing to use the vehicle as a display in their own dealership, and as a demo at the show, they have violated their own obligations as a dealership. you do have the right to cancel your sale based on the lack of proper business procedure after a sale has been made.

Suzuki of Newmarket "could" claim that they have suffered damages - later costs of advertising to sell the bike that you had purchased, however that typically only applies to used machinery, as New manufacturer year models have advertising done by the manufacturer so this would not apply.

However, on a legal standpoint, you did not review, sign, have witness, or have dealer management/principle sign off on your agreement, therefore an official bill of sale is not present. Therefore - legally contract speaking wise - you do not have a perfected bill of sale (all the t's and i's were not crossed and dotted) and as such, you are able AT ANY TIME to demand (not request) your deposit on your purchase back, and they are OBLIGATED to provide it immediately, as they have no legal bill of sale.

Further, you could always call your MC/Visa card company revoke the charges. They have no bill of sale. They have no signed slip. They have a phone call. Its likely (but not 100%) that you'll get your deposit back via the credit card company. ANY salesperson knows the deal is not finalised with out a contract, the required 3 signatures (buyer, salesperson who MUST be registered, and dealer prinicipal or management who ALSO must be registered).

Further, I applaud you for going to OMVIC prior to court. OMVIC typically resolves any and all disputes quickly, and will record your negative issue with the dealership for later reference, should another complain of poor business. OMVIC operates outside of the law - when the law may say "yes its OK to do this" OMVIC says "no - you cannot" and will do what is best for the consumer most times - rather than the dealership.

Good luck. I hope that SofN is reading this, because its very easy to kick the arses of people who have egos and boatloads of money when they screw up thinking they are high on their horses. Heck, I could drag a business "president" (pffft. Small business corporate director - fancy titles these days...) into court 5 times before even going to trial, and then dismiss the case without suffering much or any cost to myself - as long as my case had some merit.

-Grimmy

[Grimmy]

Oh yeah, should this escalate to the requirement of court intervention, here is some legal info for you. As registered on the OMVIC website - so double check for accuracy.

1552799 ONTARIO INC
O/A SUZUKI OF NEWMARKET
80 HARRY WALKER PKY B
NEWMARKET
ON
L3Y8W2
905.898.1081
AGHA, SAM is a registered salesperson.

NOTE: Mr. Michael Robotham is NOT a registered salesperson, and in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM can he speak with regards to the sale of a motor vehicle, take a deposit on behalf of a sale, or represent himself as a salesperson. Make sure that OMVIC knows the specific name of the person who was selling you the bike via phone, or representing to be a salesperson via the phone, or both if applicable.

-Grimmy

[K4GSXXXR]

I see a story for a tv show in the future "Silverman Helps" on City tv.

[companyman]

Wow - what awful treatment. I agree with your tactics and would worry that the "new bike from the crate" they are trying to arrange will also be a floor model.

I think SoN may treat you better if they knew how much goodwill they're burining by this discussion on GTAM. They don't want to lose the sale since they probably know that you won't deal with them again no matter what they do. But treating you properly would stop the bad reputation they're getting on this board.

[Fast Eddie]

Post their phone number here. If there is a 1 800 #, that too. I will call and "*****", about how I was going to buy there but not now, and how my Buddy got ripped off.
I would be ******!!!!!! If there are a lot of people calling about it, maybe they will realize they made a mistake and their profit ratio will take a slam!! Call in guys. FE

[Biggsy]

I have met Sam, and talked to him on a few occasions - he seemed like an above board guy. Odd that they would take that approach. If the shoe were on the other foot, the grey M109R that's in the showroom (Sam'
s brothers) has a very clear 'do not sit' sign on it. If you jumped on that they'd probably ask you to leave the dealership.

I hope he, or an employee of SoNM reads this forum and takes note. It's certainly putting me off giving them more business (of which last year I spent $500 on gear, $700 exhaust, $650 alarm etc etc..)

[Aminal]

I feel for you, they should never have used a purchased bike like that, no excusses! However the offer of a new, crated bike is about the best they can do and it will save you the hassle of finding another one. I would take the bike but take my future buisness elsewhere.
Suzuki Canada is in richmond hill on east beaver creek ( Leslie & hwy 7) Please call them and try and get some satisfaction. In my case I bought my 1996 1400 Intruder from Mcbrides, 3 months later the electrical harness was shorting out the system so I took it back under warranty. They didn't fix anything! Just changed the fuses and sent me on my way. 30 minutes later i had no turn signals or brake light, headed straight back and raised heck about it. They said they couldn't get to it for 2 weeks and to leave it or bring it back! I called Suzuki and told them the story, brought the bike back 2 days later and had it fixed properly and ready 2 days later. The whole wirring harness had to be changed and was a $600 job, good thing for the warranty.
I have nothing but praise for my Suzuki and it has served me well these past 10 years, the dealership however lost any future buisness from me.
Cheers
Aminal

[eastcoast_gsx]

My brother purchased a used 2003 F150 4x4 from Suzuki of Newmarket. He noticed that the rear hub was leaking (just chaulked it up to a bad seal) but decided to buy the truck anyway, willing to get that fixed if it became a big problem. He purchased the extra warranty and all.

A week or so later he noticed the transmission making a weird noise (barely audible), brought it in and the put it on the ramp (hindsight, never buy a vehicle without seeing it on the ramp, especially a 4x4). The mechanic proudly came and got us to boast his detective skills. You could CLEARLY see where this vehicle had struck something (aka a rock) and dragged it from the front of the vehicle until it quite clearly stopped (brought up solid) at the transmission, pushing all that up inside the tranny. The front crossmember was bent up and everything.

S-O-N pretty much told him tough luck as it was a 4x4 and he could have done that himself, even though the mechanic (without no one else around) noticed along with us that the mark running half the length of the truck was way to rusty to have been recent, he guessed it saw a winter for sure.

They backed the truck out of the shop saying that they were going to do NOTHING about this. Even said it with a terrible smug look on his face (actually a few of them in the front office were there) and said they will fix it but they will not cover ANY of the costs.

Anyway, he was lucky that he got away with no tranny problems, new pan and couple small internal parts. And he left the crossmember as it was, no problems arising from this so far. But it could have been much worse.

They really lost allot of our business as in the immediate family we own 4 Suzuki street bikes, and 2 suzuki dirt bikes. And my brother and step father just purchased 2 brand new ATV's (not suzuki). And now they have this tread in their honor.

What goes around comes around I guess.

Let me know when you are done with your fight, I may send this nice thread the the dealership email. They deserve it :-)

[Raphy]

I see a story for a tv show in the future "Silverman Helps" on City tv.


+1 ... good point!

FUnny thing is I had the same SofM wanting to sell me an 07 VStrom and said they would store it for me. For all I know, I probably would have ended up with a DEMO bike, and not a brand new one off a crate... :rolleyes:

Good luck with your matter - I would be ****** if they had the bike I put a deposit on, being showcased so everyone can see sit on...

[Devlin]

Wow! Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys/gals! I'm feeling more optimistic about the outcome after reading all your replies.

In an attempt to keep my original post short(ish), I left out many more details to support my position like a signed "Vehicle Purchase Agreement" that states that SofN will "provide proper storage", Also photos of the bike, the VIN and me in the showroom on Dec.9th, and the bike (with my buddy Gary as witness), the SofN booth, bike and VIN close-up again on Jan. 6th at the show.

The lady at the VISA card center was very nice, but after talking to her superior, could offer no help as it did not fall under the exact terms of their purchase protection. I liked the idea of contacting VP of Customer Service for Suzuki Canada and maybe even Suzuki in Japan, as my initial response from Suzuki Canada's website seemed like a canned (cut/paste) sort of response. See here:


Thank you for contacting Suzuki Canada.


We welcome correspondence from prospective Suzuki customer and are pleased to be of assistance whenever possible. While we regret the problems you have encountered, we are glad you brought your concerns to our attention.


As recreational manufacturers, it is of utmost importance that we receive feedback from our customers. You are, after all, the final user of our products and dealership services; therefore your experiences and expectations are important.

As you may be aware, our dealerships are independently owned and operated. Our business relationship with independent Suzuki dealers limits our involvement in the dealership’s day-to-day operations. One such limited area is that of sales procedures. Suzuki Canada Inc. is joined by our dealerships in continually striving to provide a high level of customer service, however, from time to time situations such as you describe do occur and consequently we fall short of our goals.
As we were not privy to your particular negotiations, we cannot comment on any verbal terms and conditions that may have been agreed upon. As the sales contract is considered to be a legal binding document between you and the selling dealer, only the written terms and conditions are considered to be part and parcel to any deal. Any change in the contract would have to be worked out amicably between the parties involved.

We are forwarding a copy of your letter and our comments to our regional manager, and are confident that this will initiate a dialogue with a regional representative and the dealer principal of each of the two dealerships. The regional representatives are in direct local contact with individual dealerships and customers, making them the most effective communication link for Suzuki Canada Inc. We believe that it is through open communication with our customers that the opportunity for improvements exists and trust that by bringing your concerns to the attention of the dealer principal this type of situation can be avoided in the future.
We deeply regret the inconvenience caused by this matter and trust that by the action taken this kind of incident can be avoided in the future. Please be assured of our continued interest in you as a prospective Suzuki customer.

[TheToeCutter]

I have met Sam, and talked to him on a few occasions - he seemed like an above board guy.

I've met the man a couple times myself, and quite honestly got the "Snake-oil" salesman vibe from him. I have come across a few industry folks that don't have too much good to say about his practices.

[99CBRF4]

Everybody in that building except the parts sales girl upstairs is a lying, thieving, incompetent retard. Ownership/management, sales, and their techs/mechanics included.

If you can't get your deposit back, and do end up getting your bike there, dismantle it completely when you get home, and reassemble it properly.

I bought my Gixxer 750 there last summer, and I will never step foot into that facility again. I had many problems, and they did absolutely nothing to address them, even after repeated phone calls, emails and letters.

I'd love to burn the building down, and walk out with a Swingline stapler.

[uniongoon]

Didn't another member get his bike back from service with no oil in the crankcase?
From what I have heard, this place should be avoided.
I can afford a new bike Suzuki of Newmarket but I will not even get free air from your shop.
Good work Devlin.

[topendz]

Devlin,

I have to commend you on your conduct. Sounds like you have been very organized and thorough, good job. I hope you are able to get you $1000 deposit back. Does it happen to say no refundable deposit on the agreement at all? Any way best of luck.

[tiger]

Everybody in that building except the parts sales girl upstairs is a lying, thieving, incompetent retard. Ownership/management, sales, and their techs/mechanics included.

If you can't get your deposit back, and do end up getting your bike there, dismantle it completely when you get home, and reassemble it properly.

I bought my Gixxer 750 there last summer, and I will never step foot into that facility again. I had many problems, and they did absolutely nothing to address them, even after repeated phone calls, emails and letters.

I'd love to burn the building down, and walk out with a Swingline stapler.

geez, don't hold back now, tell us how you really feel, and don't candy-coat it !

[Metcalfe]

I've read an awful lot of complaints about s-o-n, so I definitely wouldn't spend any money there, but don't you think you're being a little too anal about this? I mean, it's just a motorcycle. It seems pretty reasonable of them to offer you another one, so why not just take that one if people sitting on your bike is that much of an issue?

I dunno, it's your money, so my opinion really doesn't matter. I was just a little surprised that everyone thinks its so terrible to buy a bike that has been on display. I didn't see you mention it being scratched, or damaged in any way.

[JohnnyP636]

I've read an awful lot of complaints about s-o-n, so I definitely wouldn't spend any money there, but don't you think you're being a little too anal about this? I mean, it's just a motorcycle. It seems pretty reasonable of them to offer you another one, so why not just take that one if people sitting on your bike is that much of an issue?

I dunno, it's your money, so my opinion really doesn't matter. I was just a little surprised that everyone thinks its so terrible to buy a bike that has been on display. I didn't see you mention it being scratched, or damaged in any way.

So youd pay the same amout for a bike fresh out of a crate as one thats a display model? I agree that offering to get him another one seems fair enough, but I sure in hell wouldnt pay for a "NEW" bike and accept a DEMO that was on display at a bike show.....
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/463854/original/2866797-img_1317.jpg

[Biggsy]

Everybody in that building except the parts sales girl upstairs is a lying, thieving, incompetent retard. Ownership/management, sales, and their techs/mechanics included.
...
I'd love to burn the building down, and walk out with a Swingline stapler.


What are you really saying here? Quit talking in riddles man! We don't have time for these games.

[Biggsy]

I've read an awful lot of complaints about s-o-n, so I definitely wouldn't spend any money there, but don't you think you're being a little too anal about this? I mean, it's just a motorcycle. It seems pretty reasonable of them to offer you another one, so why not just take that one if people sitting on your bike is that much of an issue?

I dunno, it's your money, so my opinion really doesn't matter. I was just a little surprised that everyone thinks its so terrible to buy a bike that has been on display. I didn't see you mention it being scratched, or damaged in any way.

I half agree with you. Regardless of scratches he was cheated (as in intentionally deceived) by SoNM. They wanted to have a demo bike, they didn't have one - they were caught with their hand in the cookiejar.

a) They could have tried asking him 1st. Hey, could we bring your bike to the show? Here's a free pass - it will have a donotsit sign and we'll keep an eye on it.
b) Sam could have been a man about it. "Woah, dude did we EVER screw up - what would make it better for you? - want out? How about a free lid?"
c) If Suzuki of Canada gets involved best case scenario - maybe get a new crated bike (from SoNM unfortunatly) - dont' be shy to say "I'm an unhappy Suzuki customer" listen to what they have to say.

Take a new bike, but never service it at SoNM - the best revenge is living well. And know that margins are pretty tight on those bikes, they were basically counting on you getting service there to make money. For a laugh I'm sure you could score a 'cycleworld' license plate sign for free to affix when you pick it up.

[Pepper]

So youd pay the same amout for a bike fresh out of a crate as one thats a display model? I agree that offering to get him another one seems fair enough, but I sure in hell wouldnt pay for a "NEW" bike and accept a DEMO that was on display at a bike show.....
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/463854/original/2866797-img_1317.jpg


OMG, it would take me years to live down the shame of dropping a bike at a show! :o

[joet100r]

I'm in the market for two new dirt bikes. My son needs a small wheel 125 and I was thinking about getting an DRZ250.
My cousin (who lives in Newmarket and wants to buy that 400 supermoto bike) suggested that we go up there and try to cut a deal for the three bikes.
After reading this, I don't think so.

[Martin]

I am confident you will have no problem getting your deposit back or a brand new crated bike. The manufacturer should back you up in this complaint. I can understand its not the end of the world if your bike stayed on the floor for a few days but to take it to the bike show is beyond reason considering the bike is sold.

As a person who expects nothing short of perfect when I buy something new and I really understand your frustration. Would it help to call Suzuki of Canada customer relations?

Thanks for giving us the heads up, I know to never go near that place.

[wild2crazy]

Haha divine i even sat on your bike

I liked to know was it written directly on your contract about being reserved in storage or was it a verbal agreement

in any way sounds like you got a good case with the pictures from the show

ps it was real comfy lol

[Biggsy]

pps. And by 'sat' I mean farted.

[Gary]

I bought my bike there 2 yrs ago. The day I went to pick it up - there it was - covered in snow, outside in the parking lot. I suppose I was to be thankful it was on it's stand.

I hope you get your grand back, and shop elsewhere!! -
Have them 'cram' the other 'new' one they offer - credibility and trust are non - existant, and should be part of the sale - it's not a private deal.
It's too bad they sell bikes and cars under 1 roof - as a bike dealership - they would have been R.I.P by now.

[Metcalfe]

So youd pay the same amout for a bike fresh out of a crate as one thats a display model? I agree that offering to get him another one seems fair enough, but I sure in hell wouldnt pay for a "NEW" bike and accept a DEMO that was on display at a bike show.....
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/463854/original/2866797-img_1317.jpg

hahahahaha. that pic is hilarious. was that in t.o.?

don't take me wrong, I'd certainly speak up about it. I'm actually more of a d1ck in person, than I am online.:D I just think I would have been satisfied if they offered me another one, fresh out of a crate. I'm not saying it was ok for them to do what they did, but It doesn't seem worth trying to get your deposit back. I'd probably try to get a few bucks off the bike as a rental fee for using it at the show...

[JohnnyP636]

I dont think that one in particular was in T.O. but it happens, at the Dec show I got there around 4pm on Friday and the mirrior on a 07 ZX6R was already broken off....And if the newbies aren't dropping them their kicking the tail sections trying to mount them..LOL

[KTracing38]

I dont think that one in particular was in T.O. but it happens, at the Dec show I got there around 4pm on Friday and the mirrior on a 07 ZX6R was already broken off....And if the newbies aren't dropping them their kicking the tail sections trying to mount them..LOL


That was actually one of the guys that was working for Kawi that dropped that bike and broke the mirror. His colleagues gave him a pretty rough time about it! LOL!

I bought my 06 GSX-R from SofN at the end of Aug/early Sept. I haven't had any problems of any kind with them. I dealt mostly with Dan Delory. I also spoke with Blake. He was very helpful as well. My bike was ready when they said it would be and I haven't had any problems with it. In terms of service, SofN is kinda far for me so chances are, I won't be taking it there.

[D]

...
I'd love to burn the building down, and walk out with a Swingline stapler.

Oh Damn! 99CBRF4...that was funny as hell...thanks for the laugh man...I guess you will need the stapler to hold the bike together. Something about you walking away from a burning building with a big smirk with the stapler in your hand....

[Metcalfe]

^you may find this movie entertaining...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/eb/Office_Space_DVD.jpg/200px-Office_Space_DVD.jpg

[CageyB]

I bought my 06 GSX-R from SofN at the end of Aug/early Sept. I haven't had any problems of any kind with them. I dealt mostly with Dan Delory. I also spoke with Blake. He was very helpful as well. My bike was ready when they said it would be and I haven't had any problems with it. In terms of service, SofN is kinda far for me so chances are, I won't be taking it there.

I'm on the same boat. I bought my '06 SV at this time last year, and I also dealt with Dan. I didn't get any ill-vibes from him; he seemed like a decent guy. My bike was ready when I asked for it to be ready and I haven't experienced any problems with it (yet... knock on wood). If I were to buy another Suzuki, I'd consider buying from them.

Service-wise, I've taken it to CycleWorld West for the 1000km service, since it's much closer, and have done all the other wrenching on my own. I'll note I've done nothing so far but what the manual recommends at each service interval.

[3Dartist]

Didn't another member get his bike back from service with no oil in the crankcase?
From what I have heard, this place should be avoided.
I can afford a new bike Suzuki of Newmarket but I will not even get free air from your shop.
Good work Devlin.

yah.. they put like a bit of oil only cuase he bought a new bike, rode it home to find out there is no oil in there.. it comes from the manufacturer with a bit of oil so it doesn't rust sitting there.

[canuckerjay]

I bought my bike there 2 yrs ago. The day I went to pick it up - there it was - covered in snow, outside in the parking lot. I suppose I was to be thankful it was on it's stand.

I hope you get your grand back, and shop elsewhere!! -
Have them 'cram' the other 'new' one they offer - credibility and trust are non - existant, and should be part of the sale - it's not a private deal.
.

I would tell them to shove the deal. It may not be convenient for me, but I believe in only supporting reputable shops.

I have been at odds with a few businesses over the years. I have never had to go to court, though. When the business is refusing to cooperate, and they clearly have breached the terms of our contract, I go to a lawyer, have them draft a letter with thier letterhead on it sent by certified mail, that threatens further legal action. Each time, a cheque arrives in the mail for me a few days later.

[suprPHREAK]

We actually saw the Squid mount the ZX6, his boots scratching the seat and belt buckle rubbing the gas tank. Next he lifted his foot up and dominoed two other ZX6 to the right. These were dealer owned bikes.

Something tells me they wont be back to the show next year.

[Rob MacLennan]

Wow! Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys/gals! I'm feeling more optimistic about the outcome after reading all your replies.

In an attempt to keep my original post short(ish), I left out many more details to support my position like a signed "Vehicle Purchase Agreement" that states that SofN will "provide proper storage", Also photos of the bike, the VIN and me in the showroom on Dec.9th, and the bike (with my buddy Gary as witness), the SofN booth, bike and VIN close-up again on Jan. 6th at the show.

The lady at the VISA card center was very nice, but after talking to her superior, could offer no help as it did not fall under the exact terms of their purchase protection. I liked the idea of contacting VP of Customer Service for Suzuki Canada and maybe even Suzuki in Japan, as my initial response from Suzuki Canada's website seemed like a canned (cut/paste) sort of response. See here:

< snip >



You appear to have conducted yourself in a professional manner in this issue and have shown an more than adequate grasp of business letter writing. To that I'll try to add a new skill; nuance.

Quite frequently the way that you present information is as important as the information itself. I presume that you presented the VISA representitive with a "breach of contract" story and that was the reason that they denied your claim. Is that correct? I would have approached it somewhat differently. I would have said, "I used my card to place a down payment on a new product and now the dealer is trying to substitute a USED product. The dealer is holding my deposit and I would like to cancel the transaction."

Now it's quite possible that recreational vehicle purchases fall in some crack regarding purchase protection, but you have not yet purchased the vehicle. All that you have done is have it held for you. Subtle differences in presentation mean everything. Note that while what I wrote above does not state the entire issue, it is still true.

[jdepp]

WOW , I cant believe the audacity of SoN. I will NEVER go to that shop after reading this. The fact that they offered you another bike is too little too late. They have already proven they can't be trusted. Unless they delivered an unopened crate to my house I wouldn't believe them.

[LaZER]

I would wait and see what Suzuki of Canada does for you, and if they don't get your deposit back, then tell them you're going to small claims court, where you will win, because SoN broke a contract,and when you get you money back, you're going to buy a Honda CBR 1000RR from Cycleworld East. Just becareful of who you deal with at Cycleworld. I was lucky I delt with Carl, just before he left there.

[ninja44]

I've never owned a Suzuki and probably never will but if I did I don't think I'll be going to SoNM. That is just piss poor business and he obviously tried to pull one on you and got caught. Being in his position he should have acted the part and gave you the option as he broke the sales agreement instead of saying "no refund". Take the new crated bike and walk away for good, that's all you can do, you get the bike you wanted in the end anyway, good luck man:(

[RobtheBold]

I bought my bike in Sept 04 and it was a great deal. I only found out 11 months later that the reason I got such a good deal was they registered my bike as a Demo in July, and my warrantee had expired!!!! Sold me a "new" bike, great price, didn't tell me it was a demo. They covered most of the warrantee work, but not all of it. It's my fault for not following up harder with Suzuki Head Office - you should see what a live person has to say there.

[hdsomeday]

Personally, I think its going to be a big hassle getting your $1000 back. Unless you want to take the time and probably spend more money (small claims does cost doesnt it?) I would take the new crated bike and walk away.

BUT.............................................

Tell them you will ONLY except the crated bike if you are there to watch it come out of the crate, get prepped and ready to go. ONLY THEN will you accept it. And for your troubles, they can deliver it to you.

[Team Lazy]

Why not ask them if they'll throw in something (anything) to make you feel better about the deal? Maybe for your inconvenience? Free chain wax?

But at the end of the day I'd take the new crate bike and walk away, never doing business with them again. I did that with my Volusia a few years ago. Didn't like the treatment from my dealer AFTER they had my money, so they don't get any more. I sleep fine with it, and I was happy with the bike/deal originally.

Just look out for number one, and if the deal was good enough for HIM, take it and cut your ties.

[Monopoly]

Why not ask them if they'll throw in something (anything) to make you feel better about the deal? Maybe for your inconvenience? Free chain wax?

But at the end of the day I'd take the new crate bike and walk away, never doing business with them again. I did that with my Volusia a few years ago. Didn't like the treatment from my dealer AFTER they had my money, so they don't get any more. I sleep fine with it, and I was happy with the bike/deal originally.

Just look out for number one, and if the deal was good enough for HIM, take it and cut your ties.


hahaha. After pulling a stunt like that you'd trust them to sell you a "so called" new bike?

I also feel like i got "ripped" off from S.o.N.

I purchased my gs500f brand new there for what seemed tobe a good price. Then checking autotrader.ca 2 days later and finding my bike for sale on there $400 cheaper. I asked them about it and they said there was nothing they could do. The sale was final. No money back, refunded or anything.

After returning for the 1K tune-up, i dropped the bike off it was washed a few hours b4 i brought it in. the bike looked mint!

When i went to pick it up they didnt even know they had my bike there and i had togo with the mechanic in the back shop and point out which bike was mine and had to show them my ownership b/c that stupid biatch at the desk didnt check my bike in at all when i called!

So 2 days later my bikes finally ready. when i picked it up it was filthy, some1 wiped a dirty rag all over the gas tank and rear tail it looked really dirty.

-Bolts werent even touched or moved, it looked like nothing was inspected.
-got home and checked the oil on dipstick it was bone dry(check oil level with bike on centre stand)

-drained oil and there was maybe 500ml in the pan. i had to refill it myself.

I've switched to a shop located behind there called Cobra something for my service. there pretty good but take there time on repairs, the guy is mostly familiar with older models though.


PLEASE NO ONE GOTO S.O.N.!!! they should be boycotted and protested about there service/sales. I've heard nothing but complaints in the past year about them. Lets stop the headaches!

[americancheez]

i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any help from suzuki. in 2001 i bought a 2 year old leftover, a 99 LC. it was fully decked out with all the goodies.
2 tone paint, windsheild, lowers, studded bags, matching seats, sissy bar and pad, and every peice of chrome suzuki offers for the bike. it was really sweet and i got a good price. no kidding, less than a month later, the bike began to rust. yes, i did store the bike outside, but i did have a really nice bike cover. the yamaha i owned previously spent a year outside without a cover, and had not a speck of rust on it. suzuki refused to do anything for me. there was also an issue with the feul tanks getting stress cracks on these bikes and they took 6 years and tons and tons of complaints before they did a recall, after a few of the owners devised a fix, suzuki adapted it and used it. doubt this? check the LC forum on delphi. they'll tell you all about it. that said, i still like suzuki bikes for the money. best of luck

[Rob MacLennan]

i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any help from suzuki. in 2001 i bought a 2 year old leftover, a 99 LC. it was fully decked out with all the goodies.
2 tone paint, windsheild, lowers, studded bags, matching seats, sissy bar and pad, and every peice of chrome suzuki offers for the bike. it was really sweet and i got a good price. no kidding, less than a month later, the bike began to rust. yes, i did store the bike outside, but i did have a really nice bike cover. the yamaha i owned previously spent a year outside without a cover, and had not a speck of rust on it. suzuki refused to do anything for me. there was also an issue with the feul tanks getting stress cracks on these bikes and they took 6 years and tons and tons of complaints before they did a recall, after a few of the owners devised a fix, suzuki adapted it and used it. doubt this? check the LC forum on delphi. they'll tell you all about it. that said, i still like suzuki bikes for the money. best of luck

On the rust issue, I can see them not covering it. I had a Kawi with cannisters that started rusting in the first 4 months and they wouldn't do anything either. Rust isn't generally considered a manufacturing failure.

Getting something from a manufacturer can depend upon how much your dealer is willing to go to bat for you too. I had a Bandit 1200 that was 18 months out of warranty. The shop knew that I'd had my work done there from day one. Three out of four cylinders thought that they were running in a two-stroke and seized, throwing bits of ring everywhere. John at CWW went to bat for me with their warranty claims guy and in fairly short orer Suzuki came back saying that I would have to pay for labour on the rebore and to clean up the head, but they would supply valves, valve guides, rods, and 2nd overbore pistone as no cost. Management let the whole thing fall apart, but service and Suzuki Canada had done good by me.

[Dags]

Once you put your deposit on that bike they had no right to put it on display or use it in a show. Every reputable dealer I know will put a "Sold, Please do not sit on this bike" sign on every bike they have a deposit on. Then get it into storage quick before something happens to it ( someone ignoring the sign and dropping the bike, seen it happen.)
That should have been considered YOUR bike the minute a deposit was put on it , especially considering you got a VIN# as well.

[MarcosSantiago]

I went over the 6 pages worth of posts... Wow!

All what they had to do was to label the bike as "SOLD" and take it to the rear of the shop... it would have taken 10 minutes and eveerybody happy.

Not a professsional shop. Thanks for posting, I don't feel like spending any money there now.

[companyman]

I think you may get even more satisfaction from Suzuki Canada if you reference this discussion. Add the url to your email correspondence.

It's one thing if the shop is "Mr. X Bikes" and does a sloppy job on selling you a Suzuki - you probably are more turned off the store than the brand. This time though it's "Suzuki of Newmarket" and every time it gets mentioned in a bad light, there's Suzuki's name being mentioned. How many people are turned off buying a Suzuki (regardless of the dealer) based on this thread? Even if the answer is "one" then that's one too many for Suzuki Canada's liking.

You may also want to try the Better Business Bureau. They may not be able to do anything but at least they're free (the last time I checked).

[mazdog]

I agree with a statement made by an earlier reply. Sorry forget which one as there are quite a few.
Print this thread off, take it to the dealer and advise them they have an opportunity to save 'if any remains" the name of their store.
Upon correcting the issue you would be happy to post the way the store handled the issue.
As far I can tell, there is a least four buyers already not wanting to purchase from there due to this tread.

This made me email my dealer and ask the specific question about bike storage prior to pick up.

[Brian P]

I don't agree with referencing a public forum like this (although they probably already know about it).

Doing stuff like that in an argument tends to make people "dig in their heels". Also, if there is ANY hint of slanderous statements in here, those could come back to haunt you.

Their offer of supplying an identical bike out of a crate was a reasonable one at the time, in my view. Taking it further has blown it way overboard. I think it's reasonably certain that at this point, not only do you not want to do business with them, but also they won't want to do business with you. That's called "burning bridges".

[SiNNeR]

off topic but this is one of my pet peeves
<and I am for from a spelling or gramer teacher, just this one really bugs me ;\ seems it comes up on forums ALL the TIME! >

public service refresher.

Slander vs. Libel
Traditionally, slander and libel were two separate torts. Slander dealt with spoken untruths and libel with written untruths. By and large, this distinction has disappeared in American law, with most jurisdictions now favouring a unified "defamation" cause of action.

However, this in no way impedes internet lawyers from pointing out the difference, as though it means they automatically win:

Mediacrat: Dude, you're a fcuking furry.
RealAdrian: OMG LIBEL!
Mediacrat: HAHA you moron SLANDER IS SPOKEN AND LIBEL IS WRITTEN! You lose, retard!
RealAdrian: FURSECUTION!

[Devlin]

Hello all,

I have just received this email from Blake at Suzuki of Newmarket (still in capitals). I will be sending off my paperwork to them today (after photocopying it) and expect I will see the full $1000 refunded to my VISA shortly afterwards. Thank you to everyone who provided kind words and encouragement.

Paul Devlin

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GOOD MORNING PAUL . IT’S BLAKE AT SUZUKI OF NEWMARKET. SAM HAS ADVISED PAUL THAT HE STILL OFFERS YOU A NEW ONE IN A CRATE WHICH WE HAVE SECURED. IN THE EVENT YOU DO NOT WISH TO PURSUE A NEW ONE THEN RETURN YOUR RECIEPT AND YOUR COPY OF BILL OF SALE TO SUZUKI OF NEWMARKET AND SAM WILL HAVE YOUR DEPOSIT REVERSED ON YOU CREDIT CARD. OUR HOURS ARE NINE TO NINE MONDAY TO THURSDAY AND NINE TO SIX FRIDAY AND SATURDAY. THANK YOU … BLAKE

[Rob MacLennan]

I don't agree with referencing a public forum like this (although they probably already know about it).

Doing stuff like that in an argument tends to make people "dig in their heels". Also, if there is ANY hint of slanderous statements in here, those could come back to haunt you.

Their offer of supplying an identical bike out of a crate was a reasonable one at the time, in my view. Taking it further has blown it way overboard. I think it's reasonably certain that at this point, not only do you not want to do business with them, but also they won't want to do business with you. That's called "burning bridges".

I agree with you on the idea of showing them a copy of this thread. That's just like a red cape to a bull. I disagree with you regarding the offer of another bike though. At that point the shop has proven to be untrustworthy on two separate occasions and I would be looking for my money back, and another shop myself.

After the first "mistake" it would have been a reasonable offer, if the customer stated he was reticent about going forward with the deal. Make it a second and IMHO it's completely up to the client whether he wants to continue the business relationship. To my mind the implied contract has been broken nd the customer should get his money back.

If the shop does not want to do business with the client, for any reason, then the onus is on them to return the customer's deposit.

[Grimmy]

I concur with Rob.

Once the deal was nulified for the first bike - the dealer can "offer" a replacement, however the buyer is not obligated to purchase it as it is not the "same bike"

-Grimmy

[Rob MacLennan]

Hello all,

I have just received this email from Blake at Suzuki of Newmarket (still in capitals). I will be sending off my paperwork to them today (after photocopying it) and expect I will see the full $1000 refunded to my VISA shortly afterwards. Thank you to everyone who provided kind words and encouragement.

Paul Devlin

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GOOD MORNING PAUL . IT’S BLAKE AT SUZUKI OF NEWMARKET. SAM HAS ADVISED PAUL THAT HE STILL OFFERS YOU A NEW ONE IN A CRATE WHICH WE HAVE SECURED. IN THE EVENT YOU DO NOT WISH TO PURSUE A NEW ONE THEN RETURN YOUR RECIEPT AND YOUR COPY OF BILL OF SALE TO SUZUKI OF NEWMARKET AND SAM WILL HAVE YOUR DEPOSIT REVERSED ON YOU CREDIT CARD. OUR HOURS ARE NINE TO NINE MONDAY TO THURSDAY AND NINE TO SIX FRIDAY AND SATURDAY. THANK YOU … BLAKE

Before you do that, make a few copies of the relevant information, in case that refund isn't forthcoming.. That invoice is the best proof you have regarding what you were paying for. Document everything and save the emails.

[thumpit]

I have a friend who was recently telling me about a situation that happened to her many years ago at Venture Ford on Weston Rd I think it was. They are out of business now, thank goodness, as they were as crooked as you could get.

Her husband died of a massive heart attack. Prior to that he reminded her that if anything were to happen to him they had paid extra for a life insurance policy, issued through the dealership (MISTAKE!) that would pay off the entire loan on their Ford car, if he were to die. So after the funeral and things settled down a bit, she went in to Venture Ford to sort out the paperwork and make this life insurance claim. Once there and after looking at it he took her original copy, said he'd be right back, left her in the showroom while he went to his office. Came back with her copy that he had just checked off a box on the form that said "waived", where the clause about paying extra for the life insurance was. When he said, sorry you didn't purchase the life insurance Mrs -, she said yes we did, it is there in black and white and he said, show me. She then realised he had checked that waived box. She couldn't believe that this pc of shiit had just blatantly nullified her proof. She went to the insurance company, which was in bed with Venture Ford and they said to bring in her copy of the policy. Naturally this crook had already 'taken care of business' before she got there, and she couldn't prove her case. She was flustered at the time and because of having lost her husband, didn't have the energy to fight with them. So on top of losing her husband, they had been paying considerably extra for this insurance that in the end did nothing for her. She had to continue paying for the car for another 30 months.

So, don't let that original out of your physical sight. If you see a pen come out as he leans over it laying on the desk, knock the slob upside the head......errrr......sorta thing.

I wouldn't hand them the original till I had the credit receipt in my hand. I would also give your CC company a heads up and tell them the approx hour to expect a credit to be issued on your account and once rec'd, to not allow any further 'phone orders' from that company.

[cycling]

Wow,
I bought a brand new SV 1000 from Dan Delroy and it is still in the crate.
I will pick it up start of the season,same as everybody else.
Am i concerned?
To be honest,no.
Like many people on this Forum it is deffinetly a way to air your beefs.
Forums can be good or bad,depending upon how you are looking at them.
I am the first to complain about bad service and also the first to compliment on good or great service.
It works both ways.
Not that many of you are going to agree with me on this topic,however , i too also have an opinion.
I will say that i am not wet behind the ears when it comes to business.
If i get something that is not satisfactory,first i go to the top and demand satisfaction.
Does this work?
For me always,i get way more than i bought in the first place.
Do you not think that they want to keep my business and keep me happy?
Of course they do.
If i shout and demand i expect them,whomever ,they are to get their back up.
If i am polite,courteous i expect the same in return.
With this way of dealing in business i have always come away feeling the winner.
What has happened,we are both happy.
I got something for nothing and does that not makeus all feel good?
Of course it does.
Paul i am sorry that you obviousily very upset.(As with a lot of people on this site)
I do hope it works out satisfactory for you.
To be honest i think that Suzuki will come up with a soluton that will take the fire from you.
It is not like Suzuki of Canada or Suzuki of Newmarket try to piss you off.
I am looking forward to picking up my bike from Suzuki of Newmarket and have faith that they will look after me.

[Lightcycle]

Once there and after looking at it he took her original copy, said he'd be right back, left her in the showroom while he went to his office. Came back with her copy that he had just checked off a box on the form that said "waived", where the clause about paying extra for the life insurance was. When he said, sorry you didn't purchase the life insurance Mrs -, she said yes we did, it is there in black and white and he said, show me. She then realised he had checked that waived box. She couldn't believe that this pc of shiit had just blatantly nullified her proof.

Sounds kind of fishy. The salesperson at Ford has no incentive to nullify an insurance policy underwritten by another company. His compensation is selling vehicles, not saving the insurance company a claim. The potential repercussions to him are not worth the effort of tampering with a document, seeing how the policy component of the payments could be broken out quite easily given the terms of the lease. I call bullshiit.

[gixer07]

just take the dang new bike in create if i were you or go to silverman helps city tv

[gixer07]

you would rather go to court deal with it. your going to dish out more $$$ for court costs etc and wait so long ...just take the dang new bike i would

[infernobuster]

Wow .. sorry to take this thread off course .. but i was just looking at new gixxers at S of N ... guess ive changed my mind now ..

[eastcoast_gsx]

you would rather go to court deal with it. your going to dish out more $$$ for court costs etc and wait so long ...just take the dang new bike i would

Hence why the consumer is losing the upper hand as companies get bigger. They know the effort involved, and they COUNT on people just saying "what the hell" screw my principals.

He will get his $1000 back. He is taking a very good approach.

[99CBRF4]

off topic but this is one of my pet peeves
<and I am for from a spelling or gramer teacher,

Ha haa..

[Martin]

You speak as though you've owned a yamaha before. The Ultimate Junk Championship title goes back and forth between those two.

[thumpit]

Sounds kind of fishy. The salesperson at Ford has no incentive to nullify an insurance policy underwritten by another company. His compensation is selling vehicles, not saving the insurance company a claim. The potential repercussions to him are not worth the effort of tampering with a document, seeing how the policy component of the payments could be broken out quite easily given the terms of the lease. I call bullshiit.

As was already said, the insurance was issued through some sort of deal that Venture Ford was behind. I don't care if you do call BS, my friend I know and she would not make up the story, you on the other hand, I do not not know, but figure you could kill two birds with one stone by calling BS AND using an extra opportunity to expose your BMW for sale. Now here's an idea, why not have a retaliatory reply again so the bike gets even more exposure.

[Adidaz]

Wouldn't she have bank record copies of the insurance coming out as it generally comes out separatly from the actual vehicle payment?

[motley]

You speak as though you've owned a yamaha before. The Ultimate Junk Championship title goes back and forth between those two.

Yamaha get my vote.

[jdepp]

FONT][/COLOR]
GOOD MORNING PAUL . IT’S BLAKE AT SUZUKI OF NEWMARKET. SAM HAS ADVISED PAUL THAT HE STILL OFFERS YOU A NEW ONE IN A CRATE WHICH WE HAVE SECURED. IN THE EVENT YOU DO NOT WISH TO PURSUE A NEW ONE THEN RETURN YOUR RECIEPT AND YOUR COPY OF BILL OF SALE TO SUZUKI OF NEWMARKET AND SAM WILL HAVE YOUR DEPOSIT REVERSED ON YOU CREDIT CARD. OUR HOURS ARE NINE TO NINE MONDAY TO THURSDAY AND NINE TO SIX FRIDAY AND SATURDAY. THANK YOU … BLAKE[/QUOTE]

If they follow through with this then they have regained some measure of respect. What bothers me though is that they did it in the first place and if you hadn't checked you would never have known. Just seems very unprofessional.

[Lightcycle]

As was already said, the insurance was issued through some sort of deal that Venture Ford was behind. I don't care if you do call BS, my friend I know and she would not make up the story, you on the other hand, I do not not know, but figure you could kill two birds with one stone by calling BS AND using an extra opportunity to expose your BMW for sale. Now here's an idea, why not have a retaliatory reply again so the bike gets even more exposure.

Ok.

[Monopoly]

Wow,
I bought a brand new SV 1000 from Dan Delroy and it is still in the crate.
I will pick it up start of the season,same as everybody else.
Am i concerned?
To be honest,no.
Like many people on this Forum it is deffinetly a way to air your beefs.
Forums can be good or bad,depending upon how you are looking at them.
I am the first to complain about bad service and also the first to compliment on good or great service.
It works both ways.
Not that many of you are going to agree with me on this topic,however , i too also have an opinion.
I will say that i am not wet behind the ears when it comes to business.
If i get something that is not satisfactory,first i go to the top and demand satisfaction.
Does this work?
For me always,i get way more than i bought in the first place.
Do you not think that they want to keep my business and keep me happy?
Of course they do.
If i shout and demand i expect them,whomever ,they are to get their back up.
If i am polite,courteous i expect the same in return.
With this way of dealing in business i have always come away feeling the winner.
What has happened,we are both happy.
I got something for nothing and does that not makeus all feel good?
Of course it does.
Paul i am sorry that you obviousily very upset.(As with a lot of people on this site)
I do hope it works out satisfactory for you.
To be honest i think that Suzuki will come up with a soluton that will take the fire from you.
It is not like Suzuki of Canada or Suzuki of Newmarket try to piss you off.
I am looking forward to picking up my bike from Suzuki of Newmarket and have faith that they will look after me.


Don't expect to keep your hopes up for good service. Im like you, Im courteous and polite i dont yell or scream at someone if they didnt do the job right b/c chances are theyll do a worse job when u ***** at them.

There sales team is decent but service is just horrible. I hope you dont get the same treatment as the rest of us but form past experiences i wouldnt reccommend these guys.

They've F'ed me over too many times and that was being very polite and forgiving. Best of luck dude.

[Aminal]

The thing is....
Now that they have offered to nullify the deal and return his money, I wonder if Suzuki Canada might have done something or this thread caught their attention. I doubt highly they had an "epithany" and decided to make good in their consience.

It's a shame that they couldn't just do the right thing from the get-go! Offering another bike was fine, but they shouldn't have used the bike he bought in the first place... case closed! This will leave them a black eye and cost them financially in the future, how much? Who knows, but I think the last laugh will be on them.
Cheers
Aminal

[Vook]

All that really matters is the Sale Contract. If the dealer has not held up their part of the bargain, then the sale should be voided. So, you should be OK if the sale contract says "appropriate storage" and they obviously have not seen to that. However, there is a time limit to act on the contract, after which I believe, the sale is firm (ie. your deposit is gone). The OMVIC is your only avenue to get the deposit back.

I think they were reasonable to suggest a new, out-of-the-crate bike to smooth things over. Regardless, I hope you get this settled. Good Luck!

[Motori]

Devlin
update us on the actions that SON does after you go there
and with the refund from visa and everything
I definitely will not Upgrade to a Gixxer from them

Im taking my business somewhere else!
Thnk you!
Best of luck to you

[Devlin]

Devlin
update us on the actions that SON does after you go there
and with the refund from visa and everything
I definitely will not Upgrade to a Gixxer from them

Im taking my business somewhere else!
Thnk you!
Best of luck to you


OK, will do.

Paul Devlin

PS, for what it's worth, I'll still be buying GSX-R1000 sometime soon, but maybe used so I can forget about warranties and dealers.

[9.2SECQT]

I just bought my new gsxr 750 this morning from Rob at suzuki of brampton and not only did i get a smokin deal, i got to put a sold sign on my crate in there heated offsite warehouse. Mabey you should give him a call

[Devlin]

I just bought my new gsxr 750 this morning from Rob at suzuki of brampton and not only did i get a smokin deal, i got to put a sold sign on my crate in there heated offsite warehouse. Mabey you should give him a call

;) sounds like heaven

maybe I'll be _that_ lucky someday soon

[danmos]

My opinion may be a bit bias but.......
When a bike in our showroom is considered sold (written agreement, deposit, whatever) the salesman or purchasing customer places an "I'M SOLD AND MY NEW OWNER SAYS HANDS OFF, THANK YOU" sign on the front of the bike and a "DO NOT SIT ON" sign on the seat. The bike will then be taken into the shop area and prepped for pick up or delivery. In the case of winter time the bike goes into proper storage (no charge) until the agreed upon delivery time.
Only on one occasion was the shop full so we put a bike cover over the unit so people wouldn't even be tempted to touch (and that was only for a couple days).
In business you can not and will never satisfy every persons wants or needs, but you try, therefore offering a new bike was a professional thing to do but it never should have gotten to that point to begin with.
As enthusists we do not look at our products as "just bikes". I have yet to meet a motorcycle owner who honestly feels "it's just a bike". If they did they would be driving a car.
Many of the bikes at the Motorcycle shows are dealer owned and if any damages are incurred during the show the manufacturer will replace the parts.
They are however not pre-sold bikes!
So much more can be said in this and many other situations as this one but it all comes down to the PRINCIPLE of the matter. The bike was sold!!!!!
(I better get back to work, lol)

[SiNNeR]

personaly i am ok with a showroom and a sign saying sold stay off. most people understand this..

but going to the super show! thats F'ked up. there is NO WAY it should have even crossed they're mind.....

[Rob MacLennan]

The thing is....
Now that they have offered to nullify the deal and return his money, I wonder if Suzuki Canada might have done something or this thread caught their attention. I doubt highly they had an "epithany" and decided to make good in their consience.

It's a shame that they couldn't just do the right thing from the get-go! Offering another bike was fine, but they shouldn't have used the bike he bought in the first place... case closed! This will leave them a black eye and cost them financially in the future, how much? Who knows, but I think the last laugh will be on them.
Cheers
Aminal

At least one Suzuki sales higher-up haunts the Toronto area forums, so that's a distinct possibility.

[forgey]

Sounds kind of fishy. The salesperson at Ford has no incentive to nullify an insurance policy underwritten by another company. His compensation is selling vehicles, not saving the insurance company a claim. The potential repercussions to him are not worth the effort of tampering with a document, seeing how the policy component of the payments could be broken out quite easily given the terms of the lease. I call bullshiit.

I have known at least one dealership that would sell warantees etc. but they were bogus. There never was any warantee etc., the salesmen/dealership just pocketed the money and issued fake documents. Wouldn't surprise me to hear that a dealership did that with insurance policies too.

[2k3_gixxer_1000]

Everybody in that building except the parts sales girl upstairs is a lying, thieving, incompetent retard. Ownership/management, sales, and their techs/mechanics included.

If you can't get your deposit back, and do end up getting your bike there, dismantle it completely when you get home, and reassemble it properly.

I bought my Gixxer 750 there last summer, and I will never step foot into that facility again. I had many problems, and they did absolutely nothing to address them, even after repeated phone calls, emails and letters.

I'd love to burn the building down, and walk out with a Swingline stapler.

Adam you know im with you..... everyone i know hates this dealership and will not go there.... they have screwed so many ppl, and honestly it needs to stop...

I used to send alot of business there, as i used to deal with suzuki of brampton where Steve Walker worked there... but when he left, alot of my business and customers went to Newmarket, cause it was my local dealer.....

A friend of mine worked there, and i took in a few pieces of gear to see if he could sell for me on consignment.... well never the less, Sam screwed him on 4 months worth of pay till he was "fired"...

Well my gear remained there, and when i went to claim it, i was told " this is not yours"

for years now i have been trying to get them to own up and pay me what my gear they sold was worth... but i have got no where and i am not supprised....

Just the other day i had another negaitve run in with a k6 1k from them..... they had placed a lien on the bike, even tho it was paid in cash, and even on the bill of sale says paid in cash...... and they still did it.....


the list just goes on and on.....


pls to anyone stay away from suzuki of newmarket...... any other suzuki dealer will match his prices just to make sure you dont deal with him....

if you can not get a matched price.... pls contact me, and i will make sure you get the same price if not better from another dealer

[RR Rudebwoy]

Wow, what an experience, glad things worked out. The dealer did not act in good faith. Their actions were simply rude and inconsiderate of their customer. I mean hell, I would have been steamed if I saw the bike at the show!! Whoa.... If they had just fessed up from the get go, I bet the outcome would have been an amiable one. Although the offer to replace was reasonable, the offer came too late. The principle of the matter remained.

I read all 9 million pages and took the following from it.

1. Dealers are independently owned and operated. The manufacturer is limited in what they can, and will do when the situation is clearly a dealer/customer issue, like this one was. The manufacturer simply "manufactures the bikes" and sells them to the dealer for re-sale to the public. If you have a warranty issue, call the manufacturer. If you have a dealer issue, call the dealer.

2. Read your sales contract. ALL OF IT. If something is specified, you may be bound. For example, many sales contracts say a dealer has x number of days to supply a vehicle and can keep the deposit until such a time expires. If the deposit is to be refunded, the dealer is able to take an admin fee. Just an example.

3. Complain with tact. Be tenacious but always remain polite and be thorough. The profit from the deal is the obvious goal of selling any product but if the cost of the transaction (managing the complaint - man hours, THIS post which means lost sales from other customers etc) exceeds the benefit, most logical business owners will cut their losses short. It appears that SON wised up and realized that Paul is smart, organized and simply wasn't going anywhere.

[thumpit]

Good points Rude, but what I also took from this thread, is that that dealership has an arrogant owner who would prefer to call a bluff and see if the customer is going to cave. If even HALF of the posts in the past year (only), indicating their improper treatment by this dealership were true, then a distinct pattern of bullying and abuse of a buying public (of bikes) that do so from many perspectives, but differ wildly from your usual auto purchaser, in that a biker buys with passion and is more inclined to trust. What makes this case especially sad in my opinion, is that that very trust (the attempt) was so easily (Sam thought) manipulated. I suspect that Sam is in the habit of this, and gets away with it more often than not.

It is for this very reason, that I feel that Suzuki Canada or any other manufacturer, has a moral duty to protect their customers (we are ultimately their customers, not the crooked dealer they may chose to continue to hold a blind eye to) and by marketing their product through more reputable sources, benefits both their overall sales tarkets in this country, but also promotes a more credible product image to the consumer as a whole. As a manufacturer, you never know when something may come up (like an expensive and mass recall) whereby you need the consumer to have an attitude of confidence and faith that that brand name will do right by you.

[Gumba]

:| throw a brick through their show room window..and run :|

[RR Rudebwoy]

Good points Rude, but what I also took from this thread, is that that dealership has an arrogant owner who would prefer to call a bluff and see if the customer is going to cave. If even HALF of the posts in the past year (only), indicating their improper treatment by this dealership were true, then a distinct pattern of bullying and abuse of a buying public (of bikes) that do so from many perspectives, but differ wildly from your usual auto purchaser, in that a biker buys with passion and is more inclined to trust. What makes this case especially sad in my opinion, is that that very trust (the attempt) was so easily (Sam thought) manipulated. I suspect that Sam is in the habit of this, and gets away with it more often than not.

It is for this very reason, that I feel that Suzuki Canada or any other manufacturer, has a moral duty to protect their customers (we are ultimately their customers, not the crooked dealer they may chose to continue to hold a blind eye to) and by marketing their product through more reputable sources, benefits both their overall sales tarkets in this country, but also promotes a more credible product image to the consumer as a whole. As a manufacturer, you never know when something may come up (like an expensive and mass recall) whereby you need the consumer to have an attitude of confidence and faith that that brand name will do right by you.

You're 100% correct Thump but the reality of the situation is that dealer agreements don't just protect the manufacturer. Suzuki of Canada is a relatively small entity and the red tape (progressive discipline and even legal action) involved to effectively deal with a SON is time consuming and expensive. The fact that their initial response to Paul's e-mail was to play the "independently owned and operated" card clearly illustrates that their preference was to indemnify themselves of responsibility. In there defense, they didn't DO anything wrong, SON did.

Like I said above, although your points are ethically correct, the Titanic couldn't turn on a dime. Then again, that ship was supposed to be un-sinkable. Like you said, manufacturers rely on the customer in the end and stores like SON are eroding that base. Hopefully for Suzuki's sake, this type of dealer experience is not the norm.

[Martin]

Thank god, good riddance, I'm sick of all these hsit hole dealerships.

[kevinlaw]

I saw this tread accidently.and it was very interesting to me how things work on the net and in forums.i have personaly bought 3 bikes from sonm in the past yeras.the bikes are great and i always take them back there for repairs and i have never had any problems.to answer the guy who claims that he picked up his bike and it had low oil in the engine i should say you should learn how to check your oil.you have to have it straight up and the bike has to be level.if not level you would not have a correct reading.the other thing i should mention is that may be they made a mistake and took a sold unit to the show.so what is the big deal?they offerd to give you a brand new one out of the crate.you think if they knew it was a sold unit ,they would take that to the show?i do not think so because if the the bike was scratched or damaged i am sure you would not take it from their hands.so it could be a honest mistake.the other thing i should mention is that now that you have started this tread,we have all other sales people and owners of other bike shops ,acting as innocent customers and posting lies in here.just to hurt number one suzuki dealer in canada.think about it.i am personaly very happy with these guys and next week i am taking my brother there to buy a new hayabusa.good opportunity (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=opportunity&spell=1)
to play with a respected dealer reputation,shame on you

[Arai-ko]

if you got the bike from S-o-N... for a good deal! I would just get the new one they are offering me and any other mantainance that is required I would take it somewhere else. Why go through al these hassels and legal fees.. blab, blab... when your getting a new bike anyways, whether it may be from S-o-N or anywhere esle.

[SiNNeR]

I saw this tread accidently.and it was very interesting to me how things work on the net and in forums.i have personaly bought 3 bikes from sonm in the past yeras.the bikes are great and i always take them back there for repairs and i have never had any problems.to answer the guy who claims that he picked up his bike and it had low oil in the engine i should say you should learn how to check your oil.you have to have it straight up and the bike has to be level.if not level you would not have a correct reading.the other thing i should mention is that may be they made a mistake and took a sold unit to the show.so what is the big deal?they offerd to give you a brand new one out of the crate.you think if they knew it was a sold unit ,they would take that to the show?i do not think so because if the the bike was scratched or damaged i am sure you would not take it from their hands.so it could be a honest mistake.the other thing i should mention is that now that you have started this tread,we have all other sales people and owners of other bike shops ,acting as innocent customers and posting lies in here.just to hurt number one suzuki dealer in canada.think about it.i am personaly very happy with these guys and next week i am taking my brother there to buy a new hayabusa.good opportunity (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=opportunity&spell=1)
to play with a respected dealer reputation,shame on you

first post ?

does your paycheck allways come on time? or do you pay yourself?

[eastcoast_gsx]

I saw this tread accidently.and it was very interesting to me how things bla bla bla.... more BS....

You are hilarious. Have fun here. Thanks for opening our eyes to the fine gentleman at SON ;-)

PS: Havent you seen a trend here??

[99CBRF4]

to answer the guy who claims that he picked up his bike and it had low oil in the engine i should say you should learn how to check your oil

Ha haa.. maybe Suzuki of Newmarket mechanics should learn how to do an oil change?!? When I bought my bike from them last year, my bike was completely covered in grease (thanks again, a-holes), but they didn't touch the oil or filter. I rode it home, drained the oil, and it came out thicker than molasses. The filter was covered in crud, and hadn't been touched in weeks.


the other thing i should mention is that now that you have started this tread,we have all other sales people and owners of other bike shops ,acting as innocent customers and posting lies in here.just to hurt number one suzuki dealer in canada.think about it.i am personaly very happy with these guys and next week i am taking my brother there to buy a new hayabusa.good opportunity (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=opportunity&spell=1)
to play with a respected dealer reputation,shame on you

You mean kind of like dealership employees that sign on to post that you're happy customers, defending your craphole dealership? Please - we may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.

[Royson]

] i should say you should learn how to check your oil

Isn't the point of taking a vehicle to a repair shop so it's done for you? I'm taking my car to Mazda on Saturday for a new rim....after it's done, should I take the tire off and make sure it's balanced right myself?

People take things to shops because they don't have time, knowledge, the tools or the want to do it themselves. There's no reason for a person to double check the mechanics work, it should be done right the first time.

If Mazda only tightens one bolt on my tire, is it my fault when the tire falls off on the drive home?

[danmos]

I saw this tread accidently.and it was very interesting to me how things work on the net and in forums.i have personaly bought 3 bikes from sonm in the past yeras.the bikes are great and i always take them back there for repairs and i have never had any problems.to answer the guy who claims that he picked up his bike and it had low oil in the engine i should say you should learn how to check your oil.you have to have it straight up and the bike has to be level.if not level you would not have a correct reading.the other thing i should mention is that may be they made a mistake and took a sold unit to the show.so what is the big deal?they offerd to give you a brand new one out of the crate.you think if they knew it was a sold unit ,they would take that to the show?i do not think so because if the the bike was scratched or damaged i am sure you would not take it from their hands.so it could be a honest mistake.the other thing i should mention is that now that you have started this tread,we have all other sales people and owners of other bike shops ,acting as innocent customers and posting lies in here.just to hurt number one suzuki dealer in canada.think about it.i am personaly very happy with these guys and next week i am taking my brother there to buy a new hayabusa.good opportunity (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=opportunity&spell=1)
to play with a respected dealer reputation,shame on you


This employee of a respected bike shop is NOT pretending to be a customer of theirs in order to bad mouth SON. I am just stating how we do business and perhaps this being your first post you possibly have not read all the other posts on this web-site and perhaps you should ask your boss SAM what else you should say!!! Just speculating as you did!

[2k3_gixxer_1000]

i honestly dont know why ppl cant see what they do.....

[Rob MacLennan]

If Mazda only tightens one bolt on my tire, is it my fault when the tire falls off on the drive home?

Just for arguement's sake:

Morally, no. Legally, yes. What I mean is that you have an expectation of the wheel being correctly installed but should something happen on the road going home that results in an accident due to foreseeable equipment failure, you are held to be at fault. You are required by law to insure your vehicle is in safe operating condition prior to taking the road.

Could you sue the dealership and recover any costs? Probably, but that doesn't help you license.

[AdRath]

Just for arguement's sake:

Morally, no. Legally, yes. What I mean is that you have an expectation of the wheel being correctly installed but should something happen on the road going home that results in an accident due to foreseeable equipment failure, you are held to be at fault. You are required by law to insure your vehicle is in safe operating condition prior to taking the road.

Could you sue the dealership and recover any costs? Probably, but that doesn't help you license.

The average person that isn't mechanically inclined wouldn't know what to look for. so the expectation that they would know the shop didn't do what they said they would shouldn't be placed on the customer.

[z31tt]

Understood, you should be able to trust a dealer enough to have him put on a tire and not worry about it. Or fill your oil level correctly. However, if you own a car/motorcycle, it is your responsibility to ensure it is in proper running condition. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to check the oil level or check tire pressures. Eveyone on the road should be capable of doing these things.

Regarding SOM, it seems that every couple of months, someone is complaining about them. It happens too frequently for it to be just "honest mistakes". I know I won't be going there for anything.

[Rob MacLennan]

The average person that isn't mechanically inclined wouldn't know what to look for. so the expectation that they would know the shop didn't do what they said they would shouldn't be placed on the customer.

There is a minimal expectation that you will be able to insure your vehicle is safe for operation on public roadways; things like do your lights work, do your brakes work, are your tires properly inflated and bolted in place.... Whether a mechanic has just worked on it or not is immaterial. Who else should be held responsible if your exhaust comes off and impales someone through their windscreen?

If someone doesn't like you and drops all but one of your wheel bolts, then you are driving down the road when one of your wheels comes off and strikes another vehicle, you are held to be at fault. If you need an example, ddusseld on this board had his car hit by a wheel that came off someone else's car, in exactly this manner, and the other driver was charged.

[Royson]

Maybe my analogy with the wheel wasn't the best....lets say perhaps, a transmission fluid change (or oil change, doesn't matter) - it's unreasonable I should HAVE to go check once I take the car that the fluid is at the right level. If I pay for a service, I expect it done right...

Although it's for reasons like this, I do as much service to my car and bike as possible. Only reason my car/bike enters a shop is because I don't have the tools or knowledge. I always make the time to do my own work.

[Rob MacLennan]

Maybe my analogy with the wheel wasn't the best....lets say perhaps, a transmission fluid change (or oil change, doesn't matter) - it's unreasonable I should HAVE to go check once I take the car that the fluid is at the right level. If I pay for a service, I expect it done right...

Although it's for reasons like this, I do as much service to my car and bike as possible. Only reason my car/bike enters a shop is because I don't have the tools or knowledge. I always make the time to do my own work.

No, it isn't an unreasonable expectation. I simply felt that a little qualificational hair-splitting was necessary on the subject of responsibility, in the eyes of the law ;)

[Hachi-Roku]

On the rust issue, I can see them not covering it. I had a Kawi with cannisters that started rusting in the first 4 months and they wouldn't do anything either. Rust isn't generally considered a manufacturing failure.

.

Not always true

We must have a few dozen AQP returns at work and a few of them are for coating issues (Rust)

manufacturing issue In a round about way yes
We depend on our coaters keeping a certain standard that we guarantee the Vehicle assemblers (I call them that since they don't really manufacture anything just put together the parts )

When parts start to Rust EVEN BEFORE they get to the customer there's a problem

Back on Topic

This seems to have started as the left hand not knowing what the right is doing
Someone slipped up not pulling the bike off the floor
And someone else made the mistake of loading the bike up for the show
OK point made

but why not take the NEW bike and be done with the shop?

[SiNNeR]

Not always true



but why not take the NEW bike and be done with the shop?

i think that answer is pretty simple really.
unless you are available to be there for the uncreating, and sub assembley,
you can no longer be certain it is as they say.

they broke that trust by a very large margine.

[Rob MacLennan]

Not always true

Hence the use of the word "generally" rather than the word "ever" ;)

[AdRath]

There is a minimal expectation that you will be able to insure your vehicle is safe for operation on public roadways; things like do your lights work, do your brakes work, are your tires properly inflated and bolted in place.... Whether a mechanic has just worked on it or not is immaterial. Who else should be held responsible if your exhaust comes off and impales someone through their windscreen?

If someone doesn't like you and drops all but one of your wheel bolts, then you are driving down the road when one of your wheels comes off and strikes another vehicle, you are held to be at fault. If you need an example, ddusseld on this board had his car hit by a wheel that came off someone else's car, in exactly this manner, and the other driver was charged.

I realize you should know if your exhaust is hanging off or you are missing wheel nuts but when you leave a shop with your car can you look at your wheel nuts and tell that they are torqued or that a hanger isn't installed properly. Things can look good on visual inspection but be a hazard a few miles down the road with no warning signs. I had a car that I got 4 tires and rims installed at canadian tire and as I was almost home I noticed the steering shake a bit but I was only a few miles from home so I made it home and noticed I had only 2 wheel nuts left in each tire. They didn't torque them properly and they came lost on the ride home. I take no responsibility that I should have known. All of the wheel nuts where on and tight to the touch when I left the parking lot.

[Biggsy]

I realize you should know if your exhaust is hanging off or you are missing wheel nuts but when you leave a shop with your car can you look at your wheel nuts and tell that they are torqued or that a hanger isn't installed properly. Things can look good on visual inspection but be a hazard a few miles down the road with no warning signs. I had a car that I got 4 tires and rims installed at canadian tire and as I was almost home I noticed the steering shake a bit but I was only a few miles from home so I made it home and noticed I had only 2 wheel nuts left in each tire. They didn't torque them properly and they came lost on the ride home. I take no responsibility that I should have known. All of the wheel nuts where on and tight to the touch when I left the parking lot.

If you have steel rims with hubcaps covering, the average lay person has to assume the mechanic knows what they're doing.

Damn you crappy tire.

[Rob MacLennan]

I realize you should know if your exhaust is hanging off or you are missing wheel nuts but when you leave a shop with your car can you look at your wheel nuts and tell that they are torqued or that a hanger isn't installed properly. Things can look good on visual inspection but be a hazard a few miles down the road with no warning signs. I had a car that I got 4 tires and rims installed at canadian tire and as I was almost home I noticed the steering shake a bit but I was only a few miles from home so I made it home and noticed I had only 2 wheel nuts left in each tire. They didn't torque them properly and they came lost on the ride home. I take no responsibility that I should have known. All of the wheel nuts where on and tight to the touch when I left the parking lot.

All of that is certainly true, but I'm telling you how it is.

[AdRath]

All of that is certainly true, but I'm telling you how it is.

true... the way things are isn't always the way things should be but you are right. Here is a question... Do mechanics have to have individual insurance like doctors do in case of a malpractice or malmechanical (I know its not a word) lawsuit? or do companies who have registered mechanics have policies?

[Jayv]

true... the way things are isn't always the way things should be but you are right. Here is a question... Do mechanics have to have individual insurance like doctors do in case of a malpractice or malmechanical (I know its not a word) lawsuit? or do companies who have registered mechanics have policies?

Each garage has it's own insurance.

[Rob MacLennan]

true... the way things are isn't always the way things should be but you are right. Here is a question... Do mechanics have to have individual insurance like doctors do in case of a malpractice or malmechanical (I know its not a word) lawsuit? or do companies who have registered mechanics have policies?

From what I've seen a business generally has insurance to cover itself and any misdeeds or mistakes made by their employees are covered under that. It's one reason why so few techs do work out of their garages in their off time; because they would be personally liable.

[silverado]

sounds like what happened to me with Brampton Cycle when I bought my R1!Only I didn't end up getting it from there and Yamaha Canada also got involved........Now look where Brampton Cycle is today! Keep trying and let them know about "word of mouth" and how bad it can be for them

[eastcoast_gsx]

Guess my families horrible experience with Suzuki of Newmarket was one of many by the way that this thread is shaping up.

Just to see the smirk on the guys face when we were trying to explain our situation to him was enough to really make a person mad. We just cut ties and did buisness elsewhere, we have bought 2 bikes, 2 atv's and 3 vehicles since. Not once even giving a thought to going to that place.

They had one of those "Suzuki of Newmarket" license plate holders on my brothers truck, we were laughing like a couple of teens on LSD as we ripped that damn thing off the pickup.... lol...

PS: With the advent of internet forums like this, a business really needs to take heed of the power of a consumer to spread the word about their shady operations.

[Rob MacLennan]

Keep one thing in mind folks; For virtually every dealer in the GTA, there are a hundred similar stories.

Just keeping things in perspective ;)

[eastcoast_gsx]

And there are much better stories. I recently purchased a used 2001 Pathfinder from Fairview Nissan in Burlington. The service I have received at that dealership has blow my mind. I never even purchased warranty from them and have had my vehicle back twice to repair items that I felt should have been looked after when I bought the thing. Heated Mirror, Drive Belt, Sway Bar Bushing, Antenna and Exhaust Problems. They took the vehicle in and repaired it with NO cost to me whatsoever. The sales guy even gave me his murano to use for both the days my vehicle was in the shop (prob to try and get me hooked on the damn thing, lol). No questions asked. Even came back washed the second time. And everyone I talk to says the same thing about them. And I really look forward to doing business with them again.

My bike was Purchased from Milton Motorsports they took care of me on an out of warranty issue when my Fairing Stay snapped and I must say it was nice to see them go the extra mile. Called Suzuki Canada, got the OK with their rep, had the thing within 48hours. Was a little sketchy in regards to getting their attention sometimes, but they came though in the end.

[danmos]

Keep one thing in mind folks; For virtually every dealer in the GTA, there are a hundred similar stories.

Just keeping things in perspective ;)

Very true Rob! That's why in my earlier post I mentioned that in business you can not satisfy every customers wants or desire. We all look at our needs differently and don't always agree but we have to try our best.
And in todays day and age where you don't satisfy someone they go onto a forum and complain without always giving ALL the info.
This situation I think is different though.

[AdRath]

Very true Rob! That's why in my earlier post I mentioned that in business you can not satisfy every customers wants or desire. We all look at our needs differently and don't always agree but we have to try our best.
And in todays day and age where you don't satisfy someone they go onto a forum and complain without always giving ALL the info.
This situation I think is different though.

posted without reading all the way though sorry. lol

[K4GSXXXR]

When I bought my bike from S of NM they tried to screw me on financing rate what I was quoted and at the end of the deal was higher then what they mentiond. Another thing that I got screwed was they put a 200 size rear tire where the stock suppose to be 190 i did not know that at time the rear tire did not even last me a full season and I don't do burnouts I know how expensive tires cost.

[K4GSXXXR]

When I bought my bike from S of NM they tried to screw me on financing rate what I was quoted and at the end of the deal was higher then what they mentiond. Another thing that I got screwed was they put a 200 size rear tire where the stock suppose to be 190 i did not know that at time the rear tire did not even last me a full season and I don't do burnouts I know how expensive tires are.

[2k3_gixxer_1000]

Keep one thing in mind folks; For virtually every dealer in the GTA, there are a hundred similar stories.

Just keeping things in perspective ;)



this is true, but how many have this rep in such a short time?? as well how many other dealers HATE another dealer this much??

[Biggsy]

When I bought my bike from S of NM they tried to screw me on financing rate what I was quoted and at the end of the deal was higher then what they mentiond. ....

They don't set finance rates, its' done typically through Scotiabank (who does their financing I think..). Rates are always with a * OAC On Approved Credit - if you have a credit score with any marks on it you won't get the best rate.

[99CBRF4]

Keep one thing in mind folks; For virtually every dealer in the GTA, there are a hundred similar stories.

Rob, normally I agree with you, and I'm sure that every dealer has had a customer that has felt mistreated at some point - but these guys are a perfect example of why people are spending their hard-earned dollars south of the border and/or shopping elsewhere. Compare their review/service history with someone like S&L, Rider's Choice, or Turn2 - who very rarely, if ever, get bad reviews.

When I bought my bike there, I PAID for a number of things to be replaced/changed - and they either didn't do them at all, or did a lousy job of it. While they were at it, they gave my bike back to me looking like it was a recent theft-recovery. In contrast - while I was having some problems with my rear brake system at the track this past summer, George from Turn2 gave up one of his track sessions to help me, and get me back on the track. Not only did he not ask for any money, he refused when I offered him some. If I recall, he finally caved and accepted a beer at the end of the day.

Likewise for Simon and Laurent (S&L) - my girlfriend would have never made it through last season without their frequent help.

Who would you rather spend your money with?

The occasional faux-pas or error can be forgiven. Repeated delivery of piss-poor service and support is unforgivable. Thanks to the internet, we can let people know to avoid such places, and not spend their money there. Suzuki of Newmarket is one of those places.

[AdRath]

the sadest thing is that S&L is now out of business and these wankers at SON are still around offering piss poor service to both the bike and customer. Shops like this hurt the whole industry.

[Rob MacLennan]

Rob, normally I agree with you, and I'm sure that every dealer has had a customer that has felt mistreated at some point - but these guys are a perfect example of why people are spending their hard-earned dollars south of the border and/or shopping elsewhere. Compare their review/service history with someone like S&L, Rider's Choice, or Turn2 - who very rarely, if ever, get bad reviews.

When I bought my bike there, I PAID for a number of things to be replaced/changed - and they either didn't do them at all, or did a lousy job of it. While they were at it, they gave my bike back to me looking like it was a recent theft-recovery. In contrast - while I was having some problems with my rear brake system at the track this past summer, George from Turn2 gave up one of his track sessions to help me, and get me back on the track. Not only did he not ask for any money, he refused when I offered him some. If I recall, he finally caved and accepted a beer at the end of the day.

Likewise for Simon and Laurent (S&L) - my girlfriend would have never made it through last season without their frequent help.

Who would you rather spend your money with?

The occasional faux-pas or error can be forgiven. Repeated delivery of piss-poor service and support is unforgivable. Thanks to the internet, we can let people know to avoid such places, and not spend their money there. Suzuki of Newmarket is one of those places.

I won't dispute anything that you've said here. Rather than a specific comment about the dealer in question, my primary point is to listen and be informed regarding the various dealers in the GTA, but to never disengage your personal BS detector. Certainly such an overwhealming volume of comments with respect to a dealer should not be ignored, but I tend to place far more faith in face-to-face recountings than I ever would internet rants. People are far too brave when behind a keyboard.

(Incidentally, part of the reason I use my real name, rather than a pseudonym on message boards is to make sure that I test myself... ask myself is a statement is something that I'll be willing to attach to myself. If I say it online, then I'll likely say exactly the same to your face.)

[Devlin]

Paul Devlin please tell Kevin you dont work for the competition and not a person "acting as innocent customers and posting lies in here." I spoke to someone in S-O-N. He confirmed it was an honest mistake and are willing to earn peoples trust and busineses. I found out for myself that this thread was NOT a lie.

I sincerely hope that is true regarding "willing to earn peoples trust". And for the record, I don't work for the competition. I live and work in Ottawa as a stay-at-home-Dad (3 kids) and part time track-addict. If anyone wants to confirm this, then I would be happy to talk on the phone or face to face. My phone number is 613-286-0874 and I live at 10 Nakota Way in Barrhaven Ottawa.

Also, for the record, I received a faxed receipt today from Blake at SoNM showing that a $1000 credit has been applied to my VISA. I expect it to clear in a few days. I thank Suzuki of Newmarket for refunding my money. Good on you! The strange thing is; if they would have just done as others here suggested and tore-up the original contract, apologized and said "what can we do to make things right", I most likely would have taken the new in crate bike and a can of wax or cleaner or whatever.

[Devlin]

I tend to place far more faith in face-to-face recountings than I ever would internet rants. People are far too brave when behind a keyboard.

(Incidentally, part of the reason I use my real name, rather than a pseudonym on message boards is to make sure that I test myself... ask myself is a statement is something that I'll be willing to attach to myself. If I say it online, then I'll likely say exactly the same to your face.)

Ditto!

Paul Devlin
613-286-0874
10 Nakota Way
Ottawa
Ontario
Canada
K2J 4E9
The Earth
Spiral arm of the "Milky Way"

Oops, was that over the top?

[Rob MacLennan]

I sincerely hope that is true regarding "willing to earn peoples trust". And for the record, I don't work for the competition. I live and work in Ottawa as a stay-at-home-Dad (3 kids) and part time track-addict. If anyone wants to confirm this, then I would be happy to talk on the phone or face to face. My phone number is 613-286-0874 and I live at 10 Nakota Way in Barrhaven Ottawa.

Also, for the record, I received a faxed receipt today from Blake at SoNM showing that a $1000 credit has been applied to my VISA. I expect it to clear in a few days. I thank Suzuki of Newmarket for refunding my money. Good on you! The strange thing is; if they would have just done as others here suggested and tore-up the original contract, apologized and said "what can we do to make things right", I most likely would have taken the new in crate bike and a can of wax or cleaner or whatever.

An electronic credit from a business should show up almost immediately, with no time to clear. If you call VISA, they should be able to tell you if it has been applied.

[silverado]

good to hear you got your money back.If S.O.N. had delt with this properly,then maybe they could have saved a sale!People like that deserve what come's to them,in this case, a lost sale!!!! Did you end up getting something somewhere else?

[Devlin]

If you call VISA, they should be able to
tell you if it has been applied.

Thanks, I did. They said Wednesday by the latest. Don't know why ?!?!?

[Devlin]

Did you end up getting something somewhere else?

Not yet. Still looking.
If anyone has an 05/06/07 GSX-R1000 in good shape send me note. THX!

[RR Rudebwoy]

Happy ending, now someone publish this novel.....

[warp speed]

How about we talk about Suzuki of Brampton now...

a whole can of worms here... mwahaha

[Devlin]

How about we talk about Suzuki of Brampton now...

a whole can of worms here... mwahaha

Say it isn't so. they are currently my 2nd choice. I mean, my new 1st choice.

[Biggsy]

Every spring, people should just go in for a 'group buy' of new bikes (at least those with cash could) put the money in trust, call up suzuki canada order 10 new gixxers or whatever.

I'd rather unpack a new bike myself and let a mechanic of my choice give it a once over than most dealers 'prep'.

if only...

[Arai-ko]

wow.. 15 pages... this is worse than a bibo posting LOL

[ddusseld]

Rob,

I agree with you but this case is to me a particularly bad one. This was not a case of a tiny mistake being made. The dealership went out of their way to do wrong. Totally not acceptable bring a sold bike to a bike show..


Keep one thing in mind folks; For virtually every dealer in the GTA, there are a hundred similar stories.

Just keeping things in perspective ;)

[danmos]

Devlin, if you are looking to buy a new bike you really should look at dealers in your area. Find a dealer that you are comfortable with, talk with the salesman, parts counter people and the service manager/mechanic and see if you feel you can trust them.
In the long run a place you can trust is worth more than just going for "the best deal" out there.
You saw what the last "deal" got you! (besides a new group of friends on this website)

[eastcoast_gsx]

Say it isn't so. they are currently my 2nd choice. I mean, my new 1st choice.

Not sure of your location but we have had nothing but good experiences with HB Cycle. http://www.hbcycle.com/

[Rob MacLennan]

Rob,

I agree with you but this case is to me a particularly bad one. This was not a case of a tiny mistake being made. The dealership went out of their way to do wrong. Totally not acceptable bring a sold bike to a bike show..


You didn't read all the posts, did you Dave ;)

I previously said that it was more of a general comment, than specific to this issue.

[ddusseld]

My head was hurting from investigating SOA,BPEL and an infinite number of other "wonderful" technologies and I decided to take a break. I actually read all the posts.. :) I might not have understood all the of the context..nor remembered all of them... :) It just seemed to me that you were in a way defending them. Btw, this surprised the hell out of me... :)


You didn't read all the posts, did you Dave ;)

I previously said that it was more of a general comment, than specific to this issue.

[Hawk]

I've visited Newmarket Suzuki and was not impressed with the sales people. I am looking for a bandit but not from those people. If they only realized how much damage to the business they did over withholding the $1000.
Does anyone know of a good Suzuki dealer in the Toronto area?

[Rob MacLennan]

My head was hurting from investigating SOA,BPEL and an infinite number of other "wonderful" technologies and I decided to take a break. I actually read all the posts.. :) I might not have understood all the of the context..nor remembered all of them... :) It just seemed to me that you were in a way defending them. Btw, this surprised the hell out of me... :)

Threads like this have me split between two of my (many) pet peeves; shops that screw people over and people who take shots at others in anonymity. Tough decision, so I took both roads :laughing6:

[veteq]

I got mine from Milton Motorsports.

Great place, very friendly sales people, good price.
When I needed service, they went all out to get the problem fixed.

[Devlin]

got the refund today! :p
Thanks for reading my post everyone!

[RR Rudebwoy]

got the refund today! :p
Thanks for reading my post everyone!

Congrats Devlin, I'm glad you were able to come out on top and that SON stuck to their promise.

Now go and find a bike bro, spring is just around the corner. OK, maybe not, just can't wait.. LOL

[RR_Addict]

im glad you got your money back Devlin! i have i similar problem going on with SON right now...the salesmen Tony lied to me straight about financing....im requesting my money to be returned tomorrow(only $200 but still) i got so mad when i got a call telling me that a large down payment wouldnt be enough to approve me(as promised) and that a "strong" co-signer would be needed. i actually got mad enough that i went out the next day and bought a honda....and told the sales manager there why i was buying hid bike.

through that new salesman i leaned of this website which led me to much info of how shifty SON can be! cheers

[Rob MacLennan]

im glad you got your money back Devlin! i have i similar problem going on with SON right now...the salesmen Tony lied to me straight about financing....im requesting my money to be returned tomorrow(only $200 but still) i got so mad when i got a call telling me that a large down payment wouldnt be enough to approve me(as promised) and that a "strong" co-signer would be needed. i actually got mad enough that i went out the next day and bought a honda....and told the sales manager there why i was buying hid bike.

through that new salesman i leaned of this website which led me to much info of how shifty SON can be! cheers

Have a look at the papers you signed and see if the sale is "contigent upon financing." If you require a co-signer for the loan, then I would think that is a viable way of negating the contract. I doubt that they can force you to find someone else in order to make a sale to YOU. If the contract isn't contingent upon financing, then you might have an issue in getting your deposit back.

[derailleur]

I was seriously considering buying from them, however, after reading this post and the many other threads on this forum about them I have not only changed my mind about buying from them, but also on the brand of bike that I'm planning on buying as they would be the nearest dealership service and I need service close to home.

[caboose483]

holy old thread batman!

good read though..

[Trekie2]

WOW...what a long thread!!!! Glad it worked out for you!!!!

So SoNM, is off my list of places to buy stuff from...I hope they do read this as I am sure that $1000.00 - bike at show fiasco has cost them more than the whole bike is worth in lost sales and bad PR....

[DaveP]

WOW...what a long thread!!!! Glad it worked out for you!!!!

So SoNM, is off my list of places to buy stuff from...I hope they do read this as I am sure that $1000.00 - bike at show fiasco has cost them more than the whole bike is worth in lost sales and bad PR....

**** like this has cost them more than 3 bikes from me alone... Idiots!

[Gary]

**** like this has cost them more than 3 bikes from me alone... Idiots!

Hey Dave - you're riding the bike I bought from SON. I didn't have any issues with it before I sold it to you.
Before you wadded it up, there were NO issues with it either, other than the lack of maintainace after you bought it, but that's not SON's fault, is it?

[imnothng]

Hey Dave - you're riding the bike I bought from SON. I didn't have any issues with it before I sold it to you.
Before you wadded it up, there were NO issues with it either, other than the lack of maintainace after you bought it, but that's not SON's fault, is it?

Is there a story behind this that I missed? Sounds like it might be interesting :)

[DaveP]

Hey Dave - you're riding the bike I bought from SON. I didn't have any issues with it before I sold it to you.
Before you wadded it up, there were NO issues with it either, other than the lack of maintainace after you bought it, but that's not SON's fault, is it?

Lack of maintenance my ***! True this bike might not have it as good as when it was with you, reality is I don't clean it every time I get home, but in terms of mechanical maintenance this bike is pristine, I'd say I actualy service it too often. (I've kept up with mechanical maintenance much in the same way you did.)

Thanks for the reminder that it was build by SON, I had totally forgotten about that and that's the way I would have loved to keep it. Thanks *******! :D

[Gary]

Lack of maintenance my ***! True this bike might not have it as good as when it was with you, reality is I don't clean it every time I get home, but in terms of mechanical maintenance this bike is pristine, I'd say I actualy service it too often. (I've kept up with mechanical maintenance much in the same way you did.)

Thanks for the reminder that it was build by SON, I had totally forgotten about that and that's the way I would have loved to keep it. Thanks *******! :D

I get it now. You thought 6" of slack in the chain was normal :eek:
My bad.
Dave - wiping out a couple times a week ISN'T maintainace :D

[thumpit]

...

[smis]

Wow finally got through all of it. Good for you Devlin, most people would've just bent over. I agree with you 100%. why would you want to do business with someone who tried to screw you over. Bravo and way to stick to your guns.+1 for the little man.:)

[Devlin]

Wow finally got through all of it. Good for you Devlin, most people would've just bent over. I agree with you 100%. why would you want to do business with someone who tried to screw you over. Bravo and way to stick to your guns.+1 for the little man.:)

Thanks. It pleases me to no end to see people still reading this and making a wiser buying decision because of it.

[tarulli]

dam i just put a g down on an 09 which i pick up in the spring.... wish i read this sooner

[djltoronto]

I get it now. You thought 6" of slack in the chain was normal :eek:
My bad.
Dave - wiping out a couple times a week ISN'T maintainace :D


keeps it well grounded....;)

[FullMotoJacket]

The constant clacking against the swingarm keeps us old farts from dozing off.

[LiNK666]

I vote sticky in review section of the forum

[thumpit]

I vote sticky in review section of the forum

As has been pointed out in the past, (and I believe to be the case from my own habit) stickies become a white item unless a reader is specifically looking for something.

Do you yourself, or how many here start at the top of a thread and review each sticky for new posts before getting to new and original posts?
Maybe only a handful out of 10's of thousands.

This thread was over 2 years old, yet it can be rejuvenated just like that.

I'd say that Sam at SON made a big frig mistake the day he decided to fraudulently attempt to pass off onto a sure-sale customer a well and truly used and demo'd bike to what he thought was an unsuspecting customer who, unbeknownst to him, had the prudence to make note and compare the VIN #'s. Sam was WAY OUTTA LINE in attempting to instead of returning the man's deposit because he (Sam) had blatantly breached the sale agreement, attempted to force him into taking a different crated bike from a dlr that has already proven their dishonesty.

Justice was served. This time. (altho not totally cuz the guy still was put through the wringer) What about all the victims who are lied to and the consequent losses incurred down the road due to those losses? If they are lucky, they happen upon threads like this first. At least then they can make a judgement call on whether they want to risk a very large investment with a dealership that exhibits such unprofessionalism.

[panterafreak]

dam i just put a g down on an 09 which i pick up in the spring.... wish i read this sooner

__________________________________________________ ________________

Don't let Suzuki of Newmarket rune your buzz.

Just be diligent with the inspection of your new bike, If you're not happy with something, don't accept it... they'll fix it, or walk.

Hope you got a good price... in the end, that's what matters.

[Fletch]

I was close to buying a bike from there. However the salesmen was pushy and really rubbed my the wrong way.

Glad I didn't!

[polarized]

Unfortunately I didn't notice this thread until now. I bought my SV650 back in the spring of '08 and had a very shotty experience with them as well. They took my deposit and after that I had to kick and scream to finally get the bike...
For two months kept telling me there was a shortage of SV's... Went up a few times to check, and the last time i was there, they had one brand new on the floor room and I lost it on the sales rep... Long story short I picked up the bike the following day. I didn't care that it wasn't the colour I had ordered, I just wanted to end the nightmare. Never set foot back in that sheithole again.

[panterafreak]

I will give them kudos for warranty work I had done.

About a month after I picked the bike up, a fork seal went. I called them up & scheduled an appointment. The whole experience was painless & polite.