Cold Weather Bad for Motorcycle Engine? | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Cold Weather Bad for Motorcycle Engine?

Personally I've had more issues riding in the rain in the spring than on dry roads in January.
 
A friend loves to recount the trip to Port Dover on a February Friday the 13th some years ago.
Balaclava under the helmet, long johns, thermal socks and snowmobile suit on top.
He still froze.
Got home and washed the salt off.
Although he parked it in a heated garage, the metal and plastic were still so cold that the soapy water froze before he could rinse.
Winter motorcycle riding is possible, but a royal pain.
 
January 13th 2017 isn't far away – if the weather is reasonable and the roads are clear...I'm thinking about it. ;)
 
Apart from the preaching as to whether or not as a new rider you should ride in the winter here are a few thoughts:

Hypothermia is a very real risk. It is in some ways a bigger risk at temperatures above freezing as we can get fooled into not realizing how much heat we have lost. You really need good gear to make sure you stay warm. You are riding in the wind and are getting wind chill directly related to the speed you are going. I ride in whether down into the minus teens. Generally temperature isn't much of an issue to me but rather the risk of lake effect snow is my biggest concern. I don't subscribe to the long (lower) underwear thoughts as I find that when I stop I get way too hot and start sweating. Instead I have some fleece pants that go over my street pants and under my riding overpants. These are easy to get off when I stop. (Many people will get heated pants.) You really need to stop the wind so make sure your outer layer is very windproof. I have a heated jacket which I wear next to my shirt. As it gets below 10°c I add a soft shell over the heated jacket and my riding suit goes over that. That keeps me warm and comfy without much bulk. Before I got the heated jacket I would have multiple layers of fleece under my riding jacket and it would get bulky.



All bike tires, but especially Sport Bike tries, get very hard in cold weather. You will have way less traction than you would have in warmer weather. Your tire pressure will naturally drop a lot as it gets colder so I don't know if the previous post about dropping tires pressures makes sense or not. (My bike is an adventurer bike and I use tires that are a maybe 10% oriented towards off-road so they seem to work reasonable well even below freezing on dry roads.)

Many people get ice and Black Ice mixed up. They are very different things although the end result of hitting them is often the same. I think it is good to know the causes as it might help you avoid hitting them. Black ice is most likely to hit when the temperature was cold overnight and has risen above freezing. As the air warms there is moisture in the air that hits cold pavement and makes a very thin slippery layer on top of the pavement. It is more likely in shadows and on bridges. You used to be able to see it as a black layer on the pavement but since road crews have started "Brining" roads (which is to spray a think layer of salt water on the pavement) it is hard to tell a wet surface that is rideable from black ice so now you need to be extra careful.

As far as starting the bike goes: if you have a modern fuel injected bike you should start it and as soon as it runs okay ride away, albeit gently at the beginning (I literally start my bike and go. I never sit there and warm it up.) Your bike will warm up much quicker when you are riding than just sitting there.

..Tom
 
zeta_immersion said:
I feel bad for him as i know how it was when i first got my bike (November)

All i can tell you is that nothing can prepare you for cold weather on a bike, or wind, or rain or any combination of the aforementioned.

Try not to do it, as tires are cold, engine reluctant (although could be warmed up), you have too many layers and is hard to move, paranoid with new bike, cluth cable is tight because of the cold, your tire temp is for the summer (and not deflated a few PSI for winter) etc....

As everyone else said before ... get a good motorcycle jacket and pants for the winter and a few layers of clothing, heated grips, (your head will be ok in almost any helmet but your face will still get cold and your face shield foggy), let the engine warm up (enough say 1 min or so), deflate the tires by about 2PSI or so, a neck warmer (this will save your neck quite literally). Do a few rounds in your neighborhood before heading out. Braking .. buahahah ... you got no brakes (they are cold) so give yourself plenty of distance. Tires are cold so give them time to bite (acceleration & deceleration)

Report back how it was ... we are interested
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Your face does need need to get cold if your helmet has a chin curtain (or whatever it's called.) My EXO helmets in the past had an anti-fog coating which worked well at avoiding fogging. My current helmet has the Pinlock system and doesn't fog.

I agree about good clothing. Good bike clothing should actually do a good job of keeping your neck covered and warm. In addition, if you have a heated jacket it should include a heated collar as well.

If you have a modern fuel injected bike there is no reason to "warm up" the engine unless it isn't running right. (And most run right immediately.) Engines warm up best when running with a light load so ride away and take it easy for the first little while.

I have never had any brake issues in cold.. whether using semi metallic or standard organic brakes. Is this something unique to sport bikes? Do you use pads that are better suited to the track than the streets?

I used to use heated grips but after getting heated gloves I see no reason to use them. In fact I have a set of heated grips that has been sitting in my "Bike Box" for about four years that I might install someday but haven't felt any pressing need.

..Tom
 
V-Tom said:
I used to use heated grips but after getting heated gloves I see no reason to use them. In fact I have a set of heated grips that has been sitting in my "Bike Box" for about four years that I might install someday but haven't felt any pressing need.
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I'm of the same mind and have never seen a need for heated grips personally although I can see where heated grips would be useful for some depending on their situation and cold tolerance.

ie. If you have winter gloves with a comparatively thin palm area for use specifically with heated grips that offers little insulation OR if you park your motorbike outside and the handlebars are colder than ice OR if you have arthritis, etc.
 
I agree that excessive engine warm up time is generally a waste, however there is a limit to "start and go" - giving the engine 20-30 seconds to at least ensure oil pressure has come up and stabilized (to ensure all the important bits have lubricstion) is prudent. In the colder months this is particularly important considering most bikes use heavier weight oil's that are designed for the hot summer months - a typical 15 weight motorcycle oil will be thick, whereas most cars typically use 5 or 10 weight all summer, with 5 often being recommended for the cold.

If you are changing to a lighter weight oil in the winter on your bikes (face it, few if any do), warm-up time can be reduced, however otherwise it's cheap insurance – walking the bike out of your garage, sitting on it, starting it up and dumping the clutch a few seconds later when it's only a few degrees out (or lower) is just asking for a lot of unnecessary wear.
 
As V-Tom said, the engines in question warm up quicker under light loads. If you are trying to warm up your bike solely through idling, *that* is actually increasing wear.
 
- Cold temps no problem for the motorcycle
- Be aware of reduced traction. Don't 'grab' the brakes - squeeze progressively to let the tire contact patch expand. Spirited acceleration may lead to the rear tire slipping out (especially bad on turns)
- Cold you = reduced mental ability. A heated vest and heated grips-or-gloves make the ride much more enjoyable and keep the blood flow going to your brain. Leather is best for blocking the wind and abrasion-resistance.
- Salt residue is a cosmetic threat, more for polished aluminum parts (engine cases, wheels) and bare metal (bolts/nuts), less so for painted parts.
- Keep the tank-full of gas so you don't get an air gap that can lead to overnight condensation/water-in-gas
- A battery tender to plug in overnight is still recommended
 
You should really be worrying about being a new rider, on a new bike, riding during a more dangerous time of the season rather than the cold being bad for the engine.

Most seasoned riders probably wouldn't "try out" a new bike during this season due to the increased danger.

The temps out right now are fine, but really depends how far into Winter you're willing to go. When I got my first bike, I started riding mid-October riding around the small streets, then moved to the 70-80km/h roads beginning of Nov and in to the end of Nov when snow started sticking to the ground.

No new rider really rides their bike "hard" anyway so riding aggressively isn't an issue.

Brakes lock much easier when tires are cold, but ABS should help with controlling that (though you really shouldn't rely on it).
You should find a day after riding for 15-20 mins to feel your tire to understand how it's soft/squishy and grippy when warmed up, vs how hard and slippery (hehe) they are when just starting up.

After a few seasons, it just wasn't worth riding in the cold and would rather be warm and cozy in the car..
That being said, if you're in the market for armored heated gloves, I have a pair I'm getting rid of since I don't ride in the cold anymore.. Hands are usually the first to freeze, then maybe face/neck.


PrivatePilot said:
I don't think anyone notable has been banned in a long while, at least as far as I've noticed.

Yay for civility, even when one disagrees.
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Wasn't griff banned last month sometime?
 
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TwistedKestrel said:
As V-Tom said, the engines in question warm up quicker under light loads. If you are trying to warm up your bike solely through idling, *that* is actually increasing wear.
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If you were responding to me, perhaps revisit my response again. I'm not advocating idling for five or 10 minutes in an effort to warm up the engine, that I will agree is wasteful and has potential to do more harm than good, however 20 or 30 seconds in cold weather (and perhaps 5-10 in warm) – enough for oil to flow and combustion to stabilize is still wise.
 
crankcall said:
Not wishing anyone to crash ever, but Id like to see a Canada Goose jacket explode in a cloud of fluff.
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It's inevitable, they're filled with down, technically speaking.
 
PrivatePilot said:
If you were responding to me, perhaps revisit my response again. I'm not advocating idling for five or 10 minutes in an effort to warm up the engine, that I will agree is wasteful and has potential to do more harm than good, however 20 or 30 seconds in cold weather (and perhaps 5-10 in warm) – enough for oil to flow and combustion to stabilize is still wise.
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Typically I will start my bike, let it idle while I get my helmet strapped on, and my gloves put on, and get on bike, set her upright, kick up side stand, and get her in gear and go.....

Usually that is more than enough time to satisfy almost any bike I have ever ridden, unless it was a bike with carbs,,,,,, some if not adjusted just right, needed a bit more time to run, but only to idle properly off choke.....
 
GateKeeper said:
Typically I will start my bike, let it idle while I get my helmet strapped on, and my gloves put on, and get on bike, set her upright, kick up side stand, and get her in gear and go.....

Usually that is more than enough time to satisfy almost any bike I have ever ridden, unless it was a bike with carbs,,,,,, some if not adjusted just right, needed a bit more time to run, but only to idle properly off choke.....
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Pretty much the same for my carbed bikes.
 
where did you come up with "shutters"?? then providing a link to "cowl flaps"

https://www.google.ca/search?q=shock+cooling&oq=shock+cooling&aqs=chrome.0.69i59l2j0l4.10230j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Shock cooling refers to the theory that damage to engines (particularly air-cooled aviation piston engines) may occur because of an excessively rapid decrease in temperature.
The situation where rapid cooling arises is on descent from altitude. In this condition, less power is demanded of the engine (it is throttled back) so it is developing much less heat. In a descent, the plane's airspeed increases, simultaneously increasing the cooling rate of the engine. As metals expand and contract under temperature changes, dimensional changes in the engine may exceed tolerance limits.
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here's the analysis
[FONT=&quot]Analysis[/FONT][edit]While the subject is controversial and hotly debated, some believe shock cooling, as commonly explained, is nothing but a myth. This position is supported by the fact twin engine planes commonly experience ideal conditions for shock cooling during simulated, single engine failures, yet statistically show no difference in wear or damage distribution between engines. Equally, it has been pointed out the rate cylinder head temperatures drop off after a normal engine shutdown is often much faster than the usual rates deemed to present a shock cooling risk. Furthermore, others believe[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] damage usually associated with shock cooling is actually caused by rapid throttle changes where fuel, which has been supercooled during high altitude flight, is introduced into a very hot engine cylinder during descent, where rich of peak (as opposed to lean of peak[SUP][2][/SUP]) operation is considered the norm, thus causing higher operating temperatures. It is well established[SUP][citation needed][/SUP], high operating temperatures in of themselves, can contribute to excessive component wear and damage, which is typically associated with "shock cooling". Given the available data, it strongly suggests "shock cooling" is nothing but a myth, at least in the context as commonly explained.
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i am asking for links, to support anything you have come up with here?

apparently "The shutters can be selectively closed before such power changes are applied in order to minimize and virtually eliminate the risk." ?

cowl flap(s) can, but not necessarily be a part of high performance aviation piston engine packages & high end planes, but then what about all the others with no cowl flaps? which are the norm

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Originally Posted by PrivatePilot
It's good for performance, but it's not necessarily good from a wear/longevity standpoint. On piston powered aircraft for example it's quite common for them to have shutters to control air flow over the cylinders in order to avoid shock cooling related failures. Close the throttles on an extremely cold day while still maintaining signifigant airspeed causes a drastic change in engine temperature all of a sudden which can be stressful and even cause the engine to come apart in extreme situations...that are not exactly unheard of in aviation. The shutters can be selectively closed before such power changes are applied in order to minimize and virtually eliminate the risk.

All that said most of this doesn't directly translate to the average ground based air cooled or liquid cooled engine, but it's important to keep in mind that the operation in cold weather does have potential wear and tear issues for *any* engine, although as I mentioned in my first reply there's nothing specific to motorcycle engines per se that make them any different. Your car engine doesn't "like" extreme cold either, but yes, performance may benefit.
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yodude said:
links for above?

also?
"The shutters can be selectively closed before such power changes are applied in order to minimize and virtually eliminate the risk."
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PrivatePilot said:
Google "cowl flaps airplanes" and there's lots of reading. Here's the controls for them on a Piper Seneca, for example.
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Picture7.jpg
 
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I have an Ultralight airplane (don't fly nowadays.) Mine has a Rotax 503 which is a twin cylinder, air cooled 50hp engine (Glorified snowmobile engine with dual ignition.) Cold shock wasn't an issue with it but some of my Friends with Rotax 582's (Twin cylinder Liquid cooled if I am not mistaken) have experienced it.

..Tom
 
I was told by the local Aprilia dealer that my bike would seize in the cold due to cold shock. But so far all my failures have been while warm. Doesn't mean I didn't make it wear prematurely from riding it in the cold, though. I don't let it idle for very long but at the same time I can't go highway speeds without revving it up pretty high. I did have one time after the Faster viewing last year where I left and got on the 400S right away and the bike hadn't even reached operating temp by the time I got off the highway. That probably wasn't good for it.

What's the proper warm up for a 2 stroke, anyway? I've read too many different opinions online. Some say to idle it until warm. Others say baby it until warm. Mine has never idled well while (really) cold so I usually need to blip the throttle to keep it going which usually means I just ride it and try to keep the revs down a bit.
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