served with 5 summons ...need help please !! | GTAMotorcycle.com

served with 5 summons ...need help please !!

B

bigfoot

Member
Ok let me get to what exactly happened ... purchased a car for my brother who lives in the United States last year ....ownership hasn't been transferred over to his name as yet. I was driving with a dealer plate and behind the dealer plate was a normal plate not fully visible and was expired over 3 years ago. I didn't have the ownership part of the vehicle with me. So basically what I am told is that I cannot use a dealer plate and got to have valid insurance for the car ...even though its unplated and doesn't belong to me.
These are the summons I received to appear at the Mississauga Court House
, all say under section 22 of the Provinvial Offences Act.
1. Fail to surrender Permit for Motor Vehicle
2.Use Plate not authorized for vehicle
3. Owner operate motor vehicle - no insurance
4. Use Plate not in accordance with act
5. Fail to apply for permit on becoming owner.

I don't know what to do with these , any suggestions?
Really appreciate your help , Thank you.
 
These are some big tickets. I would strongly suggest getting professional help. Should you do your part and get all the papers worked up, they might drop a few minors and keep the major convictions.
 
It seems the cop grabbed that bigfoot and put it up your *** - get legal representation
 
If the vehicle hasn't been signed over you can only be guilty for 1 and 5. The owner of the vehicle is responsible for the rest. You need to go to a lawyer or a paralegal.
 
Roadghost said:
If the vehicle hasn't been signed over you can only be guilty for 1 and 5. The owner of the vehicle is responsible for the rest. You need to go to a lawyer or a paralegal.
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Nope.

the driver (not only the owner) is (also) responsible for ensuring that the vehicle is legal. this includes verifying proper plate & sticker, insurance, possession of valid title. The only one of these that someone borrowing a vehicle may not be responsible is for #5: Fail to apply for permit on becoming owner.

If the vehicle is not legal, don't drive it. Also, never trust that someones insurance is valid. i almost got dinged borrowing a buddies truck, turns out his ins. card was expired, but still valid. Luckily i had my own insurance card (for my car) in my wallet, so he didnt ticket me. the cop followed me back (1/2 a block in a neighborhood) and asked my buddy for his valid card.
 
Ok....I think there is some confusion here.....I was using a Dealer Plate that belongs to the company I work for , their insurance is valid , Also I do have insurance on my own vehicle. My understanding was that the dealer plate covers you for the insurance part. The vehicle was totally safe and fit. The ownership part was not on me at that time but having said that I could have just purchased the vehicle and , how can he prove that ? Is that my word against his ? There is no date on the ownership. Looks like some stupid tickets to me but I will seek some legal help. Thank you guys for your help
 
bigfoot said:
Ok....I think there is some confusion here.....I was using a Dealer Plate that belongs to the company I work for , their insurance is valid , Also I do have insurance on my own vehicle. My understanding was that the dealer plate covers you for the insurance part. The vehicle was totally safe and fit. The ownership part was not on me at that time but having said that I could have just purchased the vehicle and , how can he prove that ? Is that my word against his ? There is no date on the ownership. Looks like some stupid tickets to me but I will seek some legal help. Thank you guys for your help
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Stupid tickets? why, because you committed the offences and got caught doing so? You have admitted you have had the car for at least 9 months, (you stated you bought it last year). You say you purchased it for your brother, yet your seemingly driving it regularly, Can't imagine your boss being cool wth you using their dealer plate on a car that your brother is using primarily and putting their insurance coverage at risk. The use of dealer plate is not to avoid having to buy your own plates and get your own insurance, (which is what you seem to be using it for). This is why you were charged for unauthorized plate, To be properly authorized for that plate the dealership must be the owner of the vehicle, so unless your boss is willing to go to court and lie for you....

How can you declare the vehicle safe and fit, are you a licenced mechanic able to write safety certificates?

As others have suggested, get the PROPER paperwork done, IE safety, then transfer the vehicle, (I am guessing you have been so busy that in nine mnths you haven't found a few minutes to go to MTO to do this, if your brother is unable/unwilling to do so then park the car and sell it off). Stop putting your employer's insurance at risk, (If you have a collision with this vehicle their insurer will not be happy).

But I doubt any advice you get here, (other than to keep "playing the system"), will be satisfactory.
 
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The car was purchased with a blown engine , have papers from the dealership to prove it , was sitting at a repair facility for over 5 months waiting on a used engine. I can get documentation to prove that as well. I only got the car on the road two weeks ago and I was going to get a crank sensor replaced back to the facility , moreover I have an appointment with Volkswagen on the 3rd of November for the rust warranty and after that the vehicle will go to the United States . My brother lives in Texas and the car needs to be driven across. When I say fit ...its what the registration states . there was nothing about the vehicle being unsafe. If the car can be transferred to a Texas license holder I would have gladly done so.
 
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bigfoot said:
The car was purchased with a blown engine , have papers from the dealership to prove it , was sitting at a repair facility for over 5 months waiting on a used engine. I can get documentation to prove that as well. I only got the car on the road two weeks ago and I was going to get a crank sensor replaced back to the facility , moreover I have an appointment with Volkswagen on the 3rd of November for the rust warranty and after that the vehicle will go to the United States . My brother lives in Texas and the car needs to be driven across. When I say fit ...its what the registration states . there was nothing about the vehicle being unsafe. If the car can be transferred to a Texas license holder I would have gladly done so.
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Google ... hta forums.... you will be able to find a paralegal, and also get a better understanding of how serious these charges are.
 
The only person on how and why you came to be driving the vehicle that will care may be the crown, and given the parameters on how long before title changes need to happen, and the fact you were driving the car with 2 plates on it, your in a bit of warm water.
Your going to need a lawyer or paralegal , and you'll probably get stuck with one or more of those tickets anyway. Good luck.
 
bigfoot said:
The car was purchased with a blown engine , have papers from the dealership to prove it , was sitting at a repair facility for over 5 months waiting on a used engine. I can get documentation to prove that as well. I only got the car on the road two weeks ago and I was going to get a crank sensor replaced back to the facility , moreover I have an appointment with Volkswagen on the 3rd of November for the rust warranty and after that the vehicle will go to the United States . My brother lives in Texas and the car needs to be driven across. When I say fit ...its what the registration states . there was nothing about the vehicle being unsafe. If the car can be transferred to a Texas license holder I would have gladly done so.
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Ok car was at repair facility for five months, But then you post this...

The ownership part was not on me at that time but having said that I could have just purchased the vehicle and , how can he prove that ? Is that my word against his ? There is no date on the ownership.

This is how so many people get tripped up, first you try story A, then when that doesn't work you try story B.

A being I just bought car yesterday, then you pull out your proof that you hd car at repair facility getting a used engine, can't have it both ways. The crown has played this game every day for a few years, (minimum), so they have seen all the games and scams and lies.

I doubt, if he knew all the trouble they could be in your boss would let you keep the dealer plates, (yea they too can be charged for permitting unauthorized use). Best hope the coppers don't turn the info about the misused plates over to the MTO for "further investigation" without you giving him/her a heads up.

you have the best possible advice get a lawyer, (yes it will be expensive but a LOT less than the fines and your insurer, (the convictions will go on YOUR driving record), increased premiums, on all vehicles you own.
 
bigfoot said:
Ok....I think there is some confusion here.....I was using a Dealer Plate that belongs to the company I work for , their insurance is valid , Also I do have insurance on my own vehicle. My understanding was that the dealer plate covers you for the insurance part. The vehicle was totally safe and fit. The ownership part was not on me at that time but having said that I could have just purchased the vehicle and , how can he prove that ? Is that my word against his ? There is no date on the ownership. Looks like some stupid tickets to me but I will seek some legal help. Thank you guys for your help
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The use of a dealer plate has very limited scope. You can't use a dealer plate on a vehicle that is not owned by that dealer. (This is where the ownership issue also comes in.) The vehicle doesn't need to have passed Safety, but must be safe to operate. The insurance isn't valid if the vehicle doesn't belong to the dealer who holds the plate.

Here's a FAQ on the UCDA website:

http://www.ucda.org/DealerInfo/DealerPlateFAQ.aspx
 
I was part of a similar situation a number of years back.

Sold a car with a blown engine to my boss for a couple of hundred bucks.

His family owned a taxi company. They dropped a new engine into, never changed the ownership,
and drove it around Toronto for a couple of years with dealer plates. I only found out because they left it abandoned on the 401, and a towing company was coming after me for months & months of storage charges.

Fortunately, they never ran over anyone or caused an accident with it.
 
Baggsy said:
I was part of a similar situation a number of years back.

Sold a car with a blown engine to my boss for a couple of hundred bucks.

His family owned a taxi company. They dropped a new engine into, never changed the ownership,
and drove it around Toronto for a couple of years with dealer plates. I only found out because they left it abandoned on the 401, and a towing company was coming after me for months & months of storage charges.

Fortunately, they never ran over anyone or caused an accident with it.
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I've always worried about this when giving a car in a sale. I always call insurance and let them know i'm no longer in possession of car and why.

I wonder if that's enough. Can you advise MTO of the sale if you're the seller?
 
JFD said:
I've always worried about this when giving a car in a sale. I always call insurance and let them know i'm no longer in possession of car and why.

I wonder if that's enough. Can you advise MTO of the sale if you're the seller?
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I was told by the police that I should have accompanied him to the Ministry,
to make sure that the papers were switched over.

That was a long time ago though. There should be some way to file something electronically now.
 
Baggsy said:
That was a long time ago though. There should be some way to file something electronically now.
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LOL keep in mind this is the ministry we are talking about. It was just last year (2014) that the Ministry of Health finally started allowing for online OHIP claims submissions from clinics...prior to that, the only options were either dialup 56K fax modem or 3.5" floppy diskettes (seriously).
 
JFD said:
I've always worried about this when giving a car in a sale. I always call insurance and let them know i'm no longer in possession of car and why.

I wonder if that's enough. Can you advise MTO of the sale if you're the seller?
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Yes you can notify the MTO that you as the seller have sold a vehicle. BUT it can't be done online you must attend a Service Ontario Center. It is just a matter of filing a form, it also gives you the opportunity, (if for example you feel slighted), to report the FULL selling price of the vehicle in writing to the MTO for future registration taxes...lol
 
I totally agree with what you guys say. inorder for me to get insurance on a vehicle where I am not the registered owner , that's kind of hard , secondly the car was going to be driven across the border with a 10 day trip permit and my brother would have his insurance policy while he drives it across or I might drive it over. Now since the dealership insurance will not cover me on that car , does it matter that I have valid insurance on my own car , I was told that you automatically get insured for a certain amount when you buy a new car , not sure how true that is
 
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