Buy a new frame get a VIN number from MTO?

[ski_powder]

Hey,

Is it possible to buy a brand new frame from a dealer in Ontario and then have the MTO assign a new VIN number for it since the new frame will be blank? Hypothetical situation: take your street bike to the race track and you crack your frame in a low side (frame slider catches on edge of asphalt). You don't want to get the insurance company involved but you cannot find a clean title frame either. I'm aware of other ways to bypass this problem, but it would be great if we could keep it clean in terms of legality to see what the options are.

Cheers

[01cbr]

You can stamp the vin from the old frame onto the new one and destroy the old frame.

You cant get a new vin for a blank frame.

[Rossi86]

The dealer can stamp your current VIN number when you buy the blank frame, some bike shops can stamp VIN numbers on blank frames as well.

Depending on the bike, the main concern is the price you will pay at the dealer for a blank frame, I believe it will be cheaper to buy a used clean title frame in good condition then buy a brand new one from the dealer. I was in the same situation a few years ago, and I got an unused blank frame from a private sale, for a fraction of the dealer's price.

Post an ad on Kijiji and the classifieds here, call some slavage yards, you got all winter to figure out what will work best.

[Freestyle72]

Too bad you can't buy a blank frame and get a new vin from the MTO... the sweet *** projects I would put together!!!

[01cbr]

Too bad you can't buy a blank frame and get a new vin from the MTO... the sweet *** projects I would put together!!!

Think of all the stolen bikes that could be sold again as fully road legal.

[caboose483]

Think of all the stolen bikes that could be sold again as fully road legal.

Which happens enough as it is.

[reciprocity]

Too bad you can't buy a blank frame and get a new vin from the MTO... the sweet *** projects I would put together!!!

why would the MTO issue ANY VIN? they have nothing to do with this process.

If the MTO(and other licensing orgs) created vin's they would have to backwards issue them to the manufacturer to ensure consistency of that companies records.

[JohnnyP636]

why would the MTO issue ANY VIN? they have nothing to do with this process.

If the MTO(and other licensing orgs) created vin's they would have to backwards issue them to the manufacturer to ensure consistency of that companies records.

I dont know if you can do it anymore with the new regulations on salvage/irreparable titles, but back in the day you could get a custom built title from the MTO. I actually know of one ZX10 that has a custom title, but it was a motorcycle wreaker in Brantford that did it so you might have to have a dealers licence to get it done...Either way the VIN was completely different then any other Kawi VIN Ive seen...And my friend that bought it had a hard time insuring it because it came up as a custom bike not a ZX10...

[reciprocity]

I dont know if you can do it anymore with the new regulations on salvage/irreparable titles, but back in the day you could get a custom built title from the MTO. I actually know of one ZX10 that has a custom title, but it was a motorcycle wreaker in Brantford that did it so you might have to have a dealers licence to get it done...Either way the VIN was completely different then any other Kawi VIN Ive seen...And my friend that bought it had a hard time insuring it because it came up as a custom bike not a ZX10...

That was the RBT loophole.

They changed it for a reason.

[JohnnyP636]

That was the RBT loophole.

They changed it for a reason.

Thats too bad, I see some perfectly good bikes get written off and branded irreparable....its a shame, State farm brands every bike they pay out on...

[caboose483]

Thats too bad, I see some perfectly good bikes get written off and branded irreparable....its a shame, State farm brands every bike they pay out on...

That's not exactly true. I believe if you buy the bike back from State Farm (or any other insurance co for that matter) the title status is unchanged. Unless the rules have changed recently.

When i worked at Inglis i did an insurance estimate for a 2006 'Busa that had been downed. From 20 feet away the damage was barely noticeable but every body panel had a small scuff or scrape, both rims had small scuffs, etc. The estimate came out to $13,000 just for parts. I tried to get the guy to buy the bike back then sell it to me (i'd give him a couple hundred bucks for his trouble). I could have got that bike for peanuts, likely under $2000, and then picked up a complete mint fairing set off eBay or whatever for $1500 then sold the bike for $8000.

If you have connections to people having bikes written off, you can make decent coin doing that.

[TwistedKestrel]

That's not exactly true. I believe if you buy the bike back from State Farm (or any other insurance co for that matter) the title status is unchanged. Unless the rules have changed recently.

When i worked at Inglis i did an insurance estimate for a 2006 'Busa that had been downed. From 20 feet away the damage was barely noticeable but every body panel had a small scuff or scrape, both rims had small scuffs, etc. The estimate came out to $13,000 just for parts. I tried to get the guy to buy the bike back then sell it to me (i'd give him a couple hundred bucks for his trouble). I could have got that bike for peanuts, likely under $2000, and then picked up a complete mint fairing set off eBay or whatever for $1500 then sold the bike for $8000.

If you have connections to people having bikes written off, you can make decent coin doing that.

+1 bought my bike back from State Farm after it was written off for some little bitty scratches. Not even a gap in the insurance on it, just kept riding it.

[ski_powder]

thanks for the info guys, I was hoping that the equivalent of what can be done in BC with custom builds was still possible in Ontario but it isn't. On the subject of buybacks from insurance companies, I've seen 2 BMW s1000rr's that were bought back but their title was still salvage. It turns out that you can get a dealership to re-stamp a frame VIN for you if you pay for 1hr labor and show all the ownership papers + receipt for new frame and they will give you an official work receipt indicating the VIN transfer.

[frekeyguy]

That's not exactly true. I believe if you buy the bike back from State Farm (or any other insurance co for that matter) the title status is unchanged. Unless the rules have changed recently.

When i worked at Inglis i did an insurance estimate for a 2006 'Busa that had been downed. From 20 feet away the damage was barely noticeable but every body panel had a small scuff or scrape, both rims had small scuffs, etc. The estimate came out to $13,000 just for parts. I tried to get the guy to buy the bike back then sell it to me (i'd give him a couple hundred bucks for his trouble). I could have got that bike for peanuts, likely under $2000, and then picked up a complete mint fairing set off eBay or whatever for $1500 then sold the bike for $8000.

If you have connections to people having bikes written off, you can make decent coin doing that.

written off = salvage title

They offer buy back in case you want to keep the bike for off the road use. It also saves them from towing it away.

Bikes only get about a couple hundred dollars at the salvage/recycle shop.


+1 bought my bike back from State Farm after it was written off for some little bitty scratches. Not even a gap in the insurance on it, just kept riding it.

So statefarm wrote your bike off, and you bought it back? and it still had a clean title?

Written off = gone??

[dricked]

Ok so I've replaced my frame and now have a blank frame. Where do I get my old vin stamped on the new frame? Bike has a clean title so my old vin is still good. Can I just buy the punches and do it myself?

[caboose483]

written off = salvage title

They offer buy back in case you want to keep the bike for off the road use. It also saves them from towing it away.

Bikes only get about a couple hundred dollars at the salvage/recycle shop.

So statefarm wrote your bike off, and you bought it back? and it still had a clean title?

Written off = gone??

I know of at least half a dozen cases just with friends of mine where the bike was written off and paid out and the owner opted to buy it back from their insurance co and the title remained clean. One was a 2006 GSXR600 with primarily cosmetic damage, the payout was $6500 and the buy back was $1500 so my friend ended up getting $5000 from their insurance co. They bought a mint set of race bike take-off OEM bodywork for $1000 plus a few hundred bucks on foot pegs, handlebars, etc and had the bike back on the road with over $3000 in their pocket.

If the current owner opts to buy the bike back from the insurance co, the title remains clean. If they do not, and the bike is claimed by the insurance co then auctioned it will have a salvage title.

[AC]

Thats too bad, I see some perfectly good bikes get written off and branded irreparable....its a shame, State farm brands every bike they pay out on...


they have been changing this. the last 2 months most of state farm bikes have been clean.

state farm clean

http://images.copart.com/website/data/pix/20101021/21998220_1X.JPG?

another clean state farm

http://images.copart.com/website/data/pix/20101006/21255860_9X.JPG?

but then they make this one junk

http://images.copart.com/website/data/pix/20101103/22666800_2X.JPG?

[caboose483]

they have been changing this. the last 2 months most of state farm bikes have been clean.

state farm clean



I wonder how they manage doing that. Maybe they've realized that salvage title bikes in Ontario are practically worthless. Inspect for frame damge? Odd.

[JohnnyP636]

That's not exactly true. I believe if you buy the bike back from State Farm (or any other insurance co for that matter) the title status is unchanged. Unless the rules have changed recently.

When i worked at Inglis i did an insurance estimate for a 2006 'Busa that had been downed. From 20 feet away the damage was barely noticeable but every body panel had a small scuff or scrape, both rims had small scuffs, etc. The estimate came out to $13,000 just for parts. I tried to get the guy to buy the bike back then sell it to me (i'd give him a couple hundred bucks for his trouble). I could have got that bike for peanuts, likely under $2000, and then picked up a complete mint fairing set off eBay or whatever for $1500 then sold the bike for $8000.

If you have connections to people having bikes written off, you can make decent coin doing that.

From my experience State Farm brands every bike they pay out on, you can buy it back, but with an irrepariable title...What I mean is if they decide to not fix the bike, they make sure its branded and doesnt stay clean title...

Maybe they dont do it all the time, but Ive seen them do to perfectly good bikes I would be interested in buying back, but not with an irrepairable title

Yeah it sucks sometimes parts cost soo much, I quoted a 2010 GSXR1000 a few weeks ago and it was over $8500 in parts not including labor. And in the summer we had a Kawasaki Vulcan come in that was rear ended, just 2 dented saddle bags, but the bags were $1500 each doh! They wrote it off even thou we were sure we were gonna get the fix on it...

Got a 2010 GSXR 600 right now thats tipping the scale at $5000 parts and labor, they say they are going to fix it. Just arguingl over the liability and whos insurance is actually going to pay for it..lol

[JohnnyP636]

they have been changing this. the last 2 months most of state farm bikes have been clean.

state farm clean

http://images.copart.com/website/data/pix/20101021/21998220_1X.JPG?

another clean state farm

http://images.copart.com/website/data/pix/20101006/21255860_9X.JPG?

but then they make this one junk

http://images.copart.com/website/data/pix/20101103/22666800_2X.JPG?

Thats good! Youve seen it too though? Perfectly good bike branded by Statefarm?

[AC]

Thats good! Youve seen it too though? Perfectly good bike branded by Statefarm?


Yeah, it used to be that just about every state farm bike was branded, but like caboose said they realized that branded bikes aren't worth as much as clean ones. The insurance companies have found another way to screw us..lol selling clean title bikes with bent frames.

[JohnnyP636]

Yeah, it used to be that just about every state farm bike was branded, but like caboose said they realized that branded bikes aren't worth as much as clean ones. The insurance companies have found another way to screw us..lol selling clean title bikes with bent frames.

Ever see this come from the auctions before? They took off a demolished stator and cover, gutted the stator and rotor and put a good looking cover back on....When I was moving the engine around I noticed oil spilling out, what looked like a good motor actually had no stator or rotor, rash on the end of the crank, and a piece missing out of the cases....Arghhh

[AC]

Ever see this come from the auctions before? They took off a demolished stator and cover, gutted the stator and rotor and put a good looking cover back on....When I was moving the engine around I noticed oil spilling out, what looked like a good motor actually had no stator or rotor, rash on the end of the crank, and a piece missing out of the cases....Arghhh


Haven't seen that. But why can't they just leave stuff alone? I've had bikes show up with cut wiring harness', other bikes that were all there in the pics show up stripped of all the fairings, headlights, gauges, etc..

[Rossi86]

If the current owner opts to buy the bike back from the insurance co, the title remains clean. If they do not, and the bike is claimed by the insurance co then auctioned it will have a salvage title.

Incorrect! If the title will remain clean depends on the amount of damage to the bike and mainly on the apraiser. If the bike has serious structural damage you might be able to buy it back but it will have a branded title, you can't have a clean title VIN when the frame is destroyed. Even if the damage is mostly cosmetic and the bike got "totaled" in the estimate, there's a pretty good chance it will get branded. Some insurance companies will brand perfectly good bikes with cosmetic damage, just so they don't have to insure the same bike on the street.